Immersion, Immersion, Immersion

[tomoose]

I would tend to agree with Ducimus and Sailor Steve.
I'm not sure 'immersion' neatly fits into a one-size-fits-all category. For my part I would define 'gameplay' as the ease (or lack of same) by which the player can settle into, understand the intended concept and enjoy the game. 'Immersion' is the individual player's emotional? connection while playing the game.
In that vein I would venture that SH3 w/GWX provides more immersion for me in that I can get caught up in the stress of evading a serious DC attack or trying to get in position to attack a convoy. Ergo the gameplay between SH3 and SH4 is quite similar but the immersion factor is different. I still enjoy both but for different reasons.
By the same token, take a game such as "B17, the Mighty Eighth". The gameplay can vary depending on how much of the bomber you want to control. I, personally, enjoy the immersion of playing the bombardier and gunners and taking care of the crew without actually flying the bomber (which can be quite involved in itself). It can still be quite immersive despite the lack of current day graphics and 3-D enhancements/technology.
I would suggest that the games that provide good gameplay and/or immersion are still being played by many of us. Which games they are is due to personal taste and personal opinions on what constitutes gameplay or immersion. The result: a satisfied customer/gamer, which, to us, is the bottom line but to UBI it's probably more quantity than quality hence the dire need for modders. Games that do NOT provide good gameplay and/or good immersion are quickly dumped and forgotten which, again, is a personal choice as I'm sure there are many people who have dumped SH3 and SH4 simply because they didn't like the gameplay or were not satisfied with the immersion.
I digress. Apologies.

[Tomi_099]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

That's a seriously broad statement. Anything? So, Ubi Romania should not assign a graphics artist to make the control look authentic, because those resources could be used for coding a sub-routine in the AI? No 3D crew that began with SH3? No regard whatsoever for the direction with which the propellers of subsim destiny turn?

Anything? Anything?

------------------------------------

I'm not sure, but what she writes seems interesting.
Even in my bad English could take man
That's given the chance.
Excused but can someone explain what precise and easy it is accurate.
That I can understand in my bad english.


Immersion, Immersion, Immersion ...a NEW GAME ENGIN ????

Wer Steuert das , und wer Programiert das !!
Who Controls the, and who programmed this!

[Deep Dive]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

You know what would be immersive? If, when ordering the sub to surface, i could hear the squeal of high pressure air pushing the water out of the ballast tanks, while looking at a gauge and seeing the level of high pressure air onboard become less and less as it is being used to push the water out of the main ballast tanks. I would find myself grateful that i had plenty of compressed air left, even after the volume consumed by firing 6 torpedos in a submerged attack. After all, if i didn't have compressed air to clear the water, i woudlnt be surfacing at all!

Finally, upon surfacing, i could hear the low pressure blowers pushing the rest of the water out of the ballast tanks, and somewhere below a compressor is running to refill the high pressure air flasks. Gotta keep those topped off at all times. I then order the starboard engine taken off the propulsion and put on battery charge because the port engine is damaged and not running to capacity, and right now, with lots of planes in the area, i need the fastest recharge possible right now in case i have to dive again. After all, no battery, means no forward momentum over the dive planes, which means poor depth control.

Ahh, dream a little dream. Thats the kind of detail, we probably won't ever see. I sure hope that soup is tasty.

You got me dreaming for a moment
THX

[Jimbuna]

I just hope cookie has baked plenty of bread to go with all that soup

[Tomi_099]

Originally Posted by Ducimus
You know what would be immersive? If, when ordering the sub to surface, i could hear the squeal of high pressure air pushing the water out of the ballast tanks, while looking at a gauge and seeing the level of high pressure air onboard become less and less as it is being used to push the water out of the main ballast tanks. I would find myself grateful that i had plenty of compressed air left, even after the volume consumed by firing 6 torpedos in a submerged attack. After all, if i didn't have compressed air to clear the water, i woudlnt be surfacing at all!

Finally, upon surfacing, i could hear the low pressure blowers pushing the rest of the water out of the ballast tanks, and somewhere below a compressor is running to refill the high pressure air flasks. Gotta keep those topped off at all times. I then order the starboard engine taken off the propulsion and put on battery charge because the port engine is damaged and not running to capacity, and right now, with lots of planes in the area, i need the fastest recharge possible right now in case i have to dive again. After all, no battery, means no forward momentum over the dive planes, which means poor depth control.

Ahh, dream a little dream. Thats the kind of detail, we probably won't ever see. I sure hope that soup is tasty.

Originally Posted by Deep Dive

You got me dreaming for a moment
THX

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........................ ....
Doo wah diddy diddy dum ditty do....Doo wah diddy diddy dum ditty do.

This is expressed perfectly understandable ... why are saying this yet ....
When we make this dream come true.

[subsimlee]

Well guys, I agree and disagree with all of the above but the discussions might be better aimed at SH-6. The reality is that at this late date the die is already cast for SH-5. All we can hope for is the comprimises that Ubi has settled upon satisfy something of the multitude of desires expressed. Complete or close immersion is very difficult to achieve until you can experience the heat/cold, noise and SMELL of a conventional boat....( I served on British "A" and "O" boats out of Halifax in the sixties ) I,ve always found something to enjoy and something to wish for in all the SH series. I think that's what keeps us hooked! Fingers crossed......

[IanC]

Originally Posted by subsimlee

Well guys, I agree and disagree with all of the above but the discussions might be better aimed at SH-6. The reality is that at this late date the die is already cast for SH-5. All we can hope for is the comprimises that Ubi has settled upon satisfy something of the multitude of desires expressed. Complete or close immersion is very difficult to achieve until you can experience the heat/cold, noise and SMELL of a conventional boat....( I served on British "A" and "O" boats out of Halifax in the sixties ) I,ve always found something to enjoy and something to wish for in all the SH series. I think that's what keeps us hooked! Fingers crossed......

Welcome aboard sir!
Always good to have real submariners around, to set some of us straight on certain things.

[subsimlee]

Thanks IanC,
My perspective was that of a sonarman aboard the boats, so like most i'm a babe in the woods when it comes to the broad perspective of a commander in the reality levels of our sims. I've enjoyed learning from those experienced in the SH series.......It has certainly helped in my sense of immersion!

[V.C. Sniper]

GF 100 SILENT HUNTER 5 WITH WATER SIMULATION AT LAST??

http://www.nvidia.com/object/gf100.html

[JU_88]

Well immersion can come from any number of elements.
I kinda like what the devs are going with SH in way
Perhaps Im not a true Simmer, as I find it hard to become truley immersed in most sims due the almost complete lack of the 'Human' element.
I cant get immersed in 'technical detail & depth' alone.

Originally Posted by JU_88

Well immersion can come from any number of elements.
I kinda like what the devs are going with SH in way
Perhaps Im not a true Simmer, as I find it hard to become truley immersed in most sims due the almost complete lack of the 'Human' element.
I cant get immersed in 'technical detail & depth' alone.

This is exactly why no game can ever make everyone happy. I am at the opposite end of the spectrum where computer a generated human element destroys immersion rather than creating it. Far better (for me at any rate) to imagine crew interaction rather than doing so via via a CGI drone interacting through some drop-down menu worthy of an M$ EXCEL spreadsheet.

Too each his/her own, all opinions carry the same weight in the big scheme of things.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

This is exactly why no game can ever make everyone happy. I am at the opposite end of the spectrum where computer a generated human element destroys immersion rather than creating it. Far better (for me at any rate) to imagine crew interaction rather than doing so via via a CGI drone interacting through some drop-down menu worthy of an M$ EXCEL spreadsheet.

Too each his/her own, all opinions carry the same weight in the big scheme of things.

I know exactly what you mean, when SHIII first came out one of the questions I asked the modders was if it's possible to 'delete' the animated crew.
I'm realizing we can recreate objects perfectly with CGI, but when it come to humans (or living things like dogs, cats etc...), we still don't have the technology. Something about facial expression I think...

[Reaves]

I want laser guided torpedoes and invincibility with non depleting shells. Plus an instant action button that takes me directly to a firing solution position on a battleship.

[Ducimus]

Small soapbox here.

Immersion i define as suspension of disbelief. I feel a truly immersive game should appeal both visually, and technically, but i put more priority over "technically" then "visually". (insert: You can shine a turd, but it's still a turd metaphore here).

My last patch to TMO, was mostly with eyecandy. So i don't want anyone thinking im "anti-eye candy". But i had a moment in time where i drew the line.. actually, two moments in time. Both of which involve the kingpin of eyecandy.... the external camera. I have two beefs with it:

1.) Gameplay: It's a cheat when you consider you can gain a tactical picture that no WW2 sub skipper would have had. Want to know what that sonar contact is from 20KM away and never have to pop the scope to see? Go ahead, activate the camera.

2.) A modders point of view. If anyone remembers the sub on rails effect in Sh4, or the quiliting effect of seafoam? I was hashing away for a few days on this stuff when one night when i realized that all of the time i was devoting to visual asthetics, could have been spent fixing things more crucial to play. You could make the enviormental visuals look incredibly realistic from the bridge (where it most mattered IMO), but the instant the external camera came into play, it was all hosed, people would whine, and you'd have to spend MORE time on visual asthetics. And if you don't cater to the demand, then all your work is considered crap. After that, i never looked at enviormental stuff quite the same way again.

[THE_MASK]

SH5 looks pretty damn immersive from the grahics/1st person/crew interactivity that i have seen so far . If the gameplay is as good then we have a winner .