Noob needs help with Training Mission 4

12-27-09, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny252

As far as I know, convoys should be relatively straight going unless you've been detected somehow. It's quite obvious if you've been detected - the merchants do 45* turns left and right constantly. Note that the lead destroyer tends to do a zigzag pattern anyway, hunting for subs like you!

they change course regularly just enough so sitting back at a distance and firing your torpedos with auto targetting will miss more often then hit. when manually targetting you wil get an overall average course from your calculations so you can generally get it close enough to get a lucky hit.

they dont zig zag or anything but if you watch closely with the exterior cam they will on occassion weave to port or to starboard a few degrees then divert back to the original course so their path is in a semi-straight line but they dont go straight all the time (sort of like i do after a few drinks lol)

Turkanator · 12-29-09, 01:55 PM

Gentlemen,

I'm still a really lost here, this is NOT a Training Lesson because it assumes you know way more than you (at least for me). I'm going need someone spell it out for me, How to go about beating this Lesson...

Here is what I do...

1. I do a single radar sweep to get the range and bearing of the Convoy.

2. I take her down to Periscope depth and ahead 2/3. But as soon as I start to dive to escape from the Recon Zeros and I lost all of contacts before I can plot my course and get the firing position for the Ambush.

3. So I steam down the Default Course are 1/3 or 2/3 ahead but not knowing where the convoy is really headed I end up in the wrong position to attack or right under the Lead Destroyer's nose & I'm dead meat if I let my fishes fly if I have a shoot.

Thanks,

TomcatMVD · 12-29-09, 02:01 PM

IIRC, you should be able to go surfaced at ahead flank to the default intercept position without much of a hassle from the DD's. It's quite easy to outsmart them.

magic452 · 12-30-09, 03:23 AM

Turkanator You are right is is not a very good training mission.
You start off in a very bad position and there is little you can do other than attack the escorts first. You have already been seen by the lead DD and he is after you. You are only 7.5 miles away in a very bad position. The key to a successful attack is to be in a good position and your not in one here. Get well ahead of the target and let them come to you.
Check out this link to get a idea of how to do it.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=209

My advice is to just forget it and go to a war patrol in 43 or 44 when you have radar and find your own ships and you can set up a much better attack.
Hellcat would be a good one. Don't worry about completing the mission just go to the cost of Japan or the Philippines Luzon Strait and find some good targets. When you find a target just save and you can re-shoot the thing till you get the hang of it. That's what I did. You will learn far more this way and have a lot more fun.

Magic

BigBANGtheory · 12-30-09, 05:38 AM

What sort of range do you need to be thinking about diving when approaching an escort or target then (my original estimate of 6.5nm seems a little off)?

magic452 · 12-30-09, 08:57 AM

Depends on the situation, clear skys and calm seas 8 to 10 miles, night or bad weather you can be closer.

The main point is you must be ahead of the target and not too far off it's plotted course. Plan an intercept point about 2000 yards off the course and then let them come to you. You can just set submerged at slow speed on silent running and maneuver into a good attack position.

You could not be in a worse position than what is in the so called Training mission. The only way to catch that convoy is to go submerged at 7 or so knots and you risk detection or just take on the DDs to start with. Not exactly convoy attack training.

If I was in that position I would turn West at flank speed submerged if necessary and try to set up in a better spot. Track the convoy with radar once you get 8 or 10 miles away and can surface. The convoy turns west anyway.

That is why I suggested a War Patrol. Such as Hellcat or even Lifeguard.
In Lifeguard you have 5 big fat, unescorted, CVs to practice on. See the thread on Lifeguard.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159594

Magic

jerm138 · 12-30-09, 11:05 AM

Another option would be to use the mission editor and start yourself a little further away, giving you time to set up a good ambush. There is a great tutorial for using the editor here. You won't need the tutorial if all you want to do is change your starting position. That will be very simple... just start the editor, open the existing mission, drag your boat to another location, and save.

I tried this 'training' mission yesterday, and I just exited the mission when I saw the ridiculous starting position. Kind-of like the torpedo training where the target ship is super-close and closing fast, leaving you virtually no time to identify the ship and set up a shot manually.

The mission editor is great for adjusting the training missions, or creating your own.

12-29-09, 02:01 PM	#3
TomcatMVD Weps Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: MVD, UY Posts: 359 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	IIRC, you should be able to go surfaced at ahead flank to the default intercept position without much of a hassle from the DD's. It's quite easy to outsmart them. __________________

12-30-09, 03:23 AM	#4
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Turkanator You are right is is not a very good training mission. You start off in a very bad position and there is little you can do other than attack the escorts first. You have already been seen by the lead DD and he is after you. You are only 7.5 miles away in a very bad position. The key to a successful attack is to be in a good position and your not in one here. Get well ahead of the target and let them come to you. Check out this link to get a idea of how to do it. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=209 My advice is to just forget it and go to a war patrol in 43 or 44 when you have radar and find your own ships and you can set up a much better attack. Hellcat would be a good one. Don't worry about completing the mission just go to the cost of Japan or the Philippines Luzon Strait and find some good targets. When you find a target just save and you can re-shoot the thing till you get the hang of it. That's what I did. You will learn far more this way and have a lot more fun. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l Last edited by magic452; 12-30-09 at 09:06 AM.

12-30-09, 08:57 AM	#6
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Depends on the situation, clear skys and calm seas 8 to 10 miles, night or bad weather you can be closer. The main point is you must be ahead of the target and not too far off it's plotted course. Plan an intercept point about 2000 yards off the course and then let them come to you. You can just set submerged at slow speed on silent running and maneuver into a good attack position. You could not be in a worse position than what is in the so called Training mission. The only way to catch that convoy is to go submerged at 7 or so knots and you risk detection or just take on the DDs to start with. Not exactly convoy attack training. If I was in that position I would turn West at flank speed submerged if necessary and try to set up in a better spot. Track the convoy with radar once you get 8 or 10 miles away and can surface. The convoy turns west anyway. That is why I suggested a War Patrol. Such as Hellcat or even Lifeguard. In Lifeguard you have 5 big fat, unescorted, CVs to practice on. See the thread on Lifeguard. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159594 Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l Last edited by magic452; 12-30-09 at 09:08 AM.

12-30-09, 11:05 AM	#7
jerm138 Watch Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 332 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Another option would be to use the mission editor and start yourself a little further away, giving you time to set up a good ambush. There is a great tutorial for using the editor here. You won't need the tutorial if all you want to do is change your starting position. That will be very simple... just start the editor, open the existing mission, drag your boat to another location, and save. I tried this 'training' mission yesterday, and I just exited the mission when I saw the ridiculous starting position. Kind-of like the torpedo training where the target ship is super-close and closing fast, leaving you virtually no time to identify the ship and set up a shot manually. The mission editor is great for adjusting the training missions, or creating your own. __________________

12-29-09, 01:55 PM	#2
Turkanator Nub Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Kansas, USA Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Gentlemen, I'm still a really lost here, this is NOT a Training Lesson because it assumes you know way more than you (at least for me). I'm going need someone spell it out for me, How to go about beating this Lesson... Here is what I do... 1. I do a single radar sweep to get the range and bearing of the Convoy. 2. I take her down to Periscope depth and ahead 2/3. But as soon as I start to dive to escape from the Recon Zeros and I lost all of contacts before I can plot my course and get the firing position for the Ambush. 3. So I steam down the Default Course are 1/3 or 2/3 ahead but not knowing where the convoy is really headed I end up in the wrong position to attack or right under the Lead Destroyer's nose & I'm dead meat if I let my fishes fly if I have a shoot. Thanks,

12-30-09, 05:38 AM	#5
BigBANGtheory Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: British Waters Posts: 243 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	What sort of range do you need to be thinking about diving when approaching an escort or target then (my original estimate of 6.5nm seems a little off)?