A hole without a bottom... - Page 2

CaptainHaplo · 12-20-09, 05:37 PM

The reality in Afghanistan is that you cannot win the "hearts and minds" of the people - because they are not a homogenous group, but rather a large set of distinctive heterogenous groups with differing values, traditions, sept claims, and motivations.

The answer in Afghanistan is the same as it has always been. Its the same answer to solving the majority of issues in the middle east in general.

Skybird · 12-21-09, 06:40 AM

Holy squid, Der Tagesspiegel reports that the German government now wants to negotiate even with Mullah Omar and Hekmatyar. No wonder I was so alarmed when reading Guttenberg "wants to talk with the Taliban". With that they are going far beyond what even Karzai has indicated he wants to do: to talk with rebels that "are not linked to terror networks, war crimes and are willing to live under the rules of the Afghan constitution". The last detail of course is nonsens because the constitution and the central government is what most rebel groups are fighting against, so Karzai speaks more due to a sense of desparation than realism.

If the Germans would have their way now, I think it would be legitimate to say that all their still proclaimed high-fyling goals for humanitarian ideals and freedoms and fighting crminals and terrorist - have totally failed. They already have failed for sure, but until now they still try to hide it.

Talking to Mullah Omar and Hekmatyar - and calling that "talking with moderate Taliban". Stupid Germans.

Since I wrote that long essay on Afghanistan in 2006, "Trapped in the Afghan Maze", I called for the immediate withdrawel of the Germans there (and already then warned of the role Hekmatyar was about to play again). The Germans in Afghanistan are on a political ghost flight from first day on. their goals have been seriously confused since the beginning.

Get our troops out of that mess that dilletantic political moral apostles have caused! Nothing of that sh!t is worth the death of a single German (or Western) soldier! It's off reality, it is confused, it is surreal, it is about knowing nothing about anything - it is sh!t from A to Z.

And let the responsible German politicians making these stupid decisions to go into Afghanistan over totally confused ideas, face the firing squad - so let the rest of parliament - what would remain of it after that thinning out - surely has learned the mantra:

I shall not send our troops into harms way over nothing but political sh!t.

Bloodsucking bastards. Most politicians are parasites, solving problems that without them would not exist. Of course - they all have morals and only the best of intentions written on their damn banners. Sense of realism and competence would be much better.

Torvald Von Mansee · 12-21-09, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Torvald, same thing as when Clinton had an opportunity to get Bin Laden. The opportunity was not taken. Both Bush and Clinton screwed up. However, it should be noted that there is no firm proof that Osama was in Tora Bora, though it is highly likely. It doesn't matter, because taking him out changes nothing. Had we taken him out then, we would still be fighting the Taliban. If we were to take him out today, we will still be fighting Al Qaida for years.

He is not a "leader" in the classical sense, and killing him changes nothing in reality.

What got me about Clinton is that he wouldn't do a strike to kill Bin Laden because he saw a SWINGSET near the target area!!! Oh noes, we MIGHT hurt/kill some children!!!! What a pussy!!!

AVGWarhawk · 12-21-09, 12:26 PM

I just wonder if Obama is as fast as Bush when a shoe comes flying!

Skybird · 12-21-09, 12:33 PM

He must not. He just holds a brilliant speech and by that talks the shoe to a halt while still being enroute.

AVGWarhawk · 12-21-09, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

He must not. He just holds a brilliant speech and by that talks the shoe to a halt while still being enroute.

Will he part the Red Sea when he is done his speech?

Skybird · 12-21-09, 02:33 PM

If the shoe is stubborn and Obama needs a quick escape route, why not?

Skybird · 12-22-09, 02:49 PM

Now translated for the international edition:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...668660,00.html

If the negotiating with Talkiban is meant to be an exit strategy, I nevertheless wonder why one sees the need to legitmise the enemy before one is leaving, instead of just leaving, or talk only to those not belonging to the international terror network and/or the Taliban.

In the long run, even any deal with the Taliban on international goals and issues and how Afghanistan should act and not engage in terrorism, will not last once the troops have left. Quranic law demands Muslims to not accept any treaties with infidel enemies being honoured for longer than 2 years (to assure that Muslim detemrination and pourity does not get compromised too much). And for Afghan standards, a treaty or deal holding for 2 years already is a deal lasting quite long. Already during the Soviet occupation, the some relguiously motivated warlords, mujaheddin and their allies told their CIA contacts and Western correspondents that while currently they are fighting the soviets, they nevertheless plan to destabilise the Southern russian provinces next, and bring Islamic djihad to the West as well.

That school project mentioned in that Spiegel essay obviously did not anything to hinder that, nor did it help to keep the number of Pakistani madrassas low.

12-23-09, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Quranic law demands Muslims to not accept any treaties with infidel enemies being honoured for longer than 2 years

really ?
You don't half talk rubbish Skybird.
But go on give us a laugh, show the law.

12-20-09, 05:37 PM	#16
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,405 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	The reality in Afghanistan is that you cannot win the "hearts and minds" of the people - because they are not a homogenous group, but rather a large set of distinctive heterogenous groups with differing values, traditions, sept claims, and motivations. The answer in Afghanistan is the same as it has always been. Its the same answer to solving the majority of issues in the middle east in general. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

12-21-09, 06:40 AM	#17
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Holy squid, Der Tagesspiegel reports that the German government now wants to negotiate even with Mullah Omar and Hekmatyar. No wonder I was so alarmed when reading Guttenberg "wants to talk with the Taliban". With that they are going far beyond what even Karzai has indicated he wants to do: to talk with rebels that "are not linked to terror networks, war crimes and are willing to live under the rules of the Afghan constitution". The last detail of course is nonsens because the constitution and the central government is what most rebel groups are fighting against, so Karzai speaks more due to a sense of desparation than realism. If the Germans would have their way now, I think it would be legitimate to say that all their still proclaimed high-fyling goals for humanitarian ideals and freedoms and fighting crminals and terrorist - have totally failed. They already have failed for sure, but until now they still try to hide it. Talking to Mullah Omar and Hekmatyar - and calling that "talking with moderate Taliban". Stupid Germans. Since I wrote that long essay on Afghanistan in 2006, "Trapped in the Afghan Maze", I called for the immediate withdrawel of the Germans there (and already then warned of the role Hekmatyar was about to play again). The Germans in Afghanistan are on a political ghost flight from first day on. their goals have been seriously confused since the beginning. Get our troops out of that mess that dilletantic political moral apostles have caused! Nothing of that sh!t is worth the death of a single German (or Western) soldier! It's off reality, it is confused, it is surreal, it is about knowing nothing about anything - it is sh!t from A to Z. And let the responsible German politicians making these stupid decisions to go into Afghanistan over totally confused ideas, face the firing squad - so let the rest of parliament - what would remain of it after that thinning out - surely has learned the mantra: I shall not send our troops into harms way over nothing but political sh!t. Bloodsucking bastards. Most politicians are parasites, solving problems that without them would not exist. Of course - they all have morals and only the best of intentions written on their damn banners. Sense of realism and competence would be much better. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-21-09, 12:26 PM	#19
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,305 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I just wonder if Obama is as fast as Bush when a shoe comes flying! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

12-21-09, 12:33 PM	#20
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	He must not. He just holds a brilliant speech and by that talks the shoe to a halt while still being enroute. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-21-09, 02:33 PM	#22
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If the shoe is stubborn and Obama needs a quick escape route, why not? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-22-09, 02:49 PM	#23
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,830 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Now translated for the international edition: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...668660,00.html If the negotiating with Talkiban is meant to be an exit strategy, I nevertheless wonder why one sees the need to legitmise the enemy before one is leaving, instead of just leaving, or talk only to those not belonging to the international terror network and/or the Taliban. In the long run, even any deal with the Taliban on international goals and issues and how Afghanistan should act and not engage in terrorism, will not last once the troops have left. Quranic law demands Muslims to not accept any treaties with infidel enemies being honoured for longer than 2 years (to assure that Muslim detemrination and pourity does not get compromised too much). And for Afghan standards, a treaty or deal holding for 2 years already is a deal lasting quite long. Already during the Soviet occupation, the some relguiously motivated warlords, mujaheddin and their allies told their CIA contacts and Western correspondents that while currently they are fighting the soviets, they nevertheless plan to destabilise the Southern russian provinces next, and bring Islamic djihad to the West as well. That school project mentioned in that Spiegel essay obviously did not anything to hinder that, nor did it help to keep the number of Pakistani madrassas low. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.