How do you think it would be if...

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Méo

Well I don't think it's a valuable argument to compare Japan with other western societies (even Germany of that time).

Among all the Japanese military (and even the civilian) there was the Bushidō spirit (which is a hard thing to understand but it was part of their culture). Many (if not most) of their military leaders who saw their country on the way to defeat wanted to create a huge Seppuku (or harakiri) for the whole Japanese people.

Some are gonna say that Germans were as radical as the Japanese but I don't think so. The German society of that time (altough not as revolutionary as the French) were still a western society (they were not all SS). So I think that the effect of few nuclear attacks on Germany would have been greater.

Even then, I'm not sure if it's worth to speculate on which island or place they could have invaded or what U.S. would not be able to do. There are just so many imponderables.

I agree with you in some case, a competent German leadership has prove itself in defeating France. IMHO, this competent leadership could have win the war in western Europe with quick campaigns, but I don't see how they could have conquered the whole world.

The Allied bombing of Germany was much more devastating than a few of the early A-Bombs could be, yet the Germans still fought on. The difference between dropping such weapons on an enemy that has been defeated militarily and is on the brink of collapse and an enemy that is victorious elsewhere (Short of dropping so many of them that it will completely destroy their ability to fight), is that a defeated enemy will be pushed over to surrender, while an undefeated one would just be galvanized to keep fighting in order to avenge their countrymen and defeat those that bombed them.

Speculating on which island could've been invaded and what the US wouldn't be able to do is perfectly worthy. The question was whether Germany could win the war, they could. Of course nothing is certain in war.

Note that I said they could win the war to some extent. Conquering the world would be highly unlikely, but gaining a final, favourable peace was IMO within their power had they been led properly.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The Allied bombing of Germany was much more devastating than a few of the early A-Bombs could be, yet the Germans still fought on.

Well there's a MAJOR difference between a standard bombing and an nuclear one.

If you imagine yourself in a city being bombed in the old fashioned way, you have a certain time to react, there is place for hope, for survival. This is probably why they kept fighting.

On the other hand, if you imagine yourself in a city targeted for a nuclear attack, the second you realize you're attacked, you're vaporized. no time to react, NO HOPE.

I think this is the critical difference, nuclear weapons are inescapable, this is why they are so terrifying.

This must have an indescribable effect on populations...

Originally Posted by Méo

Well there's a MAJOR difference between a standard bombing and an nuclear one.

If you imagine yourself in a city being bombed in the old fashioned way, you have a certain time to react, there is place for hope, for survival. This is probably why they kept fighting.

On the other hand, if you imagine yourself in a city targeted for a nuclear attack, the second you realize you're attacked, you're vaporized. no time to react, NO HOPE.

I think this is the critical difference, nuclear weapons are inescapable, this is why they are so terrifying.

This must have an indescribable effect on populations...

Incendiary bombing has the same result because, the fires consume all the oxygen.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Incendiary bombing has the same result because, the fires consume all the oxygen.

I'm talking about the psychological effect.

And waves of bombers are easier to detect and easier to counterattack than a single plane.

Originally Posted by Méo

I'm talking about the psychological effect.

And waves of bombers are easier to detect and easier to counterattack than a single plane.

You have a valid point.

[Méo]

Fortunately enough it did not end up to be a nuclear apocalyps.

The terrible devastation and the incommensurable lost of lives in WWII must prevent us FOREVER to use the ultimate bomb and go to war only in absolute necessity.

[Raptor1]

So they have a greater psychological effect. But if the population's morale was high after victories, it would probably not make a lot of people immediate defeatists.

It's not nessecarily true that a single bomber is easier to intercept than a large formation. Japan couldn't intercept the bombers because their fuel situation demanded that they decline to sortie against anything but large raids, while Germany would have plenty of fuel given a victory in the European land war, not to mention more planes and experienced pilots. Additionally, Germany had better radars which could detect the incoming raid. The fact that delivering a nuclear bomb to Germany would be so much more dangerous would probably have deterred the US from even sending such an attack, because it could very well be captured by the Germans.

Also, as I said, a successful invasion of Britain which would most likely have come following a victory on the mainland would mean it nearly impossible to bomb Germany with any sort of ordenance.

Eh, this is going nowhere. Suit yourself.

[Méo]

There are no infallible defence, this is especially true when there was no computer guided missiles.

And that did not prevent Britain from bombing Berlin from August 1940 to march 1944. (BTW, B-29 had a range of 5000 km, they could have attacked from elsewhere: Gibraltar, Cyprus, etc.)

But I agree with you again, this is going nowhere. You got your opinion and I got mine.

My opinion is that the U.S. were ahead of the curve by far with nuclear weapons and in the coming years the one with the nuclear power would prevail.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Incendiary bombing has the same result because, the fires consume all the oxygen.

Even then, this is not the same effect, you still have time to react, to defend, you could have some air tank.