The Livni fiasco and the hypocrisy of UN edicts

Lol, majority of Finns are first of all Finns.. Unlike those bus drivers that teared the adds off and refused to drive them.

An interesting viewpoint. So someone like Timo Junkkaala wouldn't be a real Finn then, neither would Tapani Makinen.
Though it does raise the question.
When you wrote .......

Only ones publicly objecting were the muslims.

.....
were you lying, telling lies, making up things or just writing things that were untrue?
Unless of course you consider the Pentecostals and Orthodox to be somehow Muslim, maybe the Lutherans in Turku and Tampere where the ads were being placed were really Muslims too, as were the Lutherans in Helsinki who joined the objections and of course the famously devout Muslim Finnish Bible Institute.
Good luck trying to explain why you felt the need to lie.

I suppose there is an important lesson there Happy Times.
If you have to make up bull**** to demonstrate your point then you don't have a valid point.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

An interesting viewpoint. So someone like Timo Junkkaala wouldn't be a real Finn then, neither would Tapani Makinen.
Though it does raise the question.
When you wrote ............
were you lying, telling lies, making up things or just writing things that were untrue?
Unless of course you consider the Pentecostals and Orthodox to be somehow Muslim, maybe the Lutherans in Turku and Tampere where the ads were being placed were really Muslims too, as were the Lutherans in Helsinki who joined the objections and of course the famously devout Muslim Finnish Bible Institute.
Good luck trying to explain why you felt the need to lie.

I suppose there is an important lesson there Happy Times.
If you have to make up bull**** to demonstrate your point then you don't have a valid point.

You really have become a sad character in my books.

Accusing me of lying is something i would expect from you.
When this forum has a lot of Finns it would be bordering crazy to post anything intentionally false information.

Neither of those names said nothing to me before i googled them..
Fact of the matter is that the protesting muslim bus drivers was the story on the media here.
And the Finnish media is by no means "Islamophopic" as you like to say, on the contrary in many cases.

Here is an interwiew of Jussi K. Niemelä, chairman of the freethinkers, concerning the campagn and the file, to the council of ethics in advertising, made against it.
http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.s...2009/06/907225

Excerpts.

"Vapaa-ajattelijoiden ja Humanistiliiton mainoskampanjasta syntynyt kohu ei ole Niemelää yllättänyt. Sen sijaan muslimiyhteisön voimakas reagointi tuli yllätyksenä."

"The row about the campaign byt the freethinkers and humanis league didnt suprise Niemelä. But the strong responce from the muslim community came as an suprise"

"- Missään muussa maassa, missä kampanja on järjestetty, eivät muslimit ole reagoineet näin. Tämä on jotenkin ilmeisesti masinoitu tai sitten vain jostain syystä muslimit reagoivat voimakkaasti täällä Suomessa. Tiedän, että Englannissa yksi bussikuski kieltäytyi ajamasta sikäläisen kampanjan tarralla varustettua bussia. Siitä nousi tuolloin kohu. Tämä kyseinen kuski oli käsittääkseni kristitty, Niemelä sanoo."

"-In no other country where this campaign has been held have the muslims reacted this way. This has either been organized or for some other reason the muslims react this strong here in Finland.
I know that in England one busdriver refused to drive a bus that had the local campaigns sticker. It caused a row. I understant that the particular driver was an cristian, Niemelä says."

"Toinen yllätys kohumainoksen tiimoilta on Niemelälle ollut kirkon yllättävän positiivinen suhtautuminen kampanjaan.

- Tämä saattaa kertoa siitä, että kirkko osaa pelata mediapeliä. Sen sijaan muslimiyhteisöllä on siinä vielä opeteltavaa, puheenjohtaja aprikoi"

"Another suprise concerning the campaing to Nimelä has been the suprisingly positive reaction from the church.

-This might indicate that the church handles the media game. Instead the muslim community has learning to do concerning that, the chairman thinks."

So Tribesman,here is a lesson for you, but as allways, you probably wont take it.

HT,

I don't think people like pentecostals, laestadians or even garden variety evangelical lutherans of the more conservative sort actually approve of those ads. But since you only try to single out muslims for racist purposes you'll ignore this and everything that is negative about the aforementioned groups completely.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

HT,

I don't think people like pentecostals, laestadians or even garden variety evangelical lutherans of the more conservative sort actually approve of those ads. But since you only try to single out muslims for racist purposes you'll ignore this and everything that is negative about the aforementioned groups completely.

Did they threatn with an strike?
Did they tear posters?
No, who did?
Oh yeah, the muslims.

Islam isnt a race.

Im my books its an political ideology, right there with communism, nazism, anachism etc..

Maybe there aren't that many pentecostals or laestadians etc. as bus drivers? From what I know leastadians tend to take over firms with their 'own kind' and don't have to do real work like drive buses like immigrants have to do. How about you go and preach your anti-god and anti-religion message to some pentecostals and leastadians and see how far that will get you.

Personally I'd like to see criticism by the free thinkers that was aimed against the stealing of wealth by the christian churches. You know, concrete things. Personal faith issues are kind of dumb to argue about.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Islam isnt a race.

Im my books its an political ideology, right there with communism, nazism, anachism etc..

For me islam is more political ideology than religion, too, and certainly no race, however, let's be precise, else one makes it easy for pro-islamists to hit back.

Communism in theory and practice has been different things, but both have in common to claim they hold the ultimate truth. In practice, it mostly has been dictatorship, and better functioning we have seen it only on very small, local scale, in a Kibbuz-sized sort of model (not only in Israel). Nazism also claims to have th eultimate truth, and it has seen a totalitarian control by the state as we have seen in communism made in USSR and in many earthly implementations of communism as well. Additionally Nazism sees close links to fascism for historic reasons, but the blackskirt were there first and fascism originates from a typical italian context, and not every totalitarianism is fascism or communism (in case of Germany and the USSR it was, however). Anarchism does not know any governmental control and central instance of authority, it means the absence of any rules and control and is simply the law of the jungle: the stronger does as he pleases, the weaker gets eaten.

Islam is neither nazism nor communism in ideologic orientation and content, but it is totalitarian in central control and authority of it's central rules and laws, and in social and political acting it also subjugates the individual to the community and the dogma. This totalitarian structure it shares with Nazism and the Soviet Union-model of communism.

Islam accepts only the greater strength of opposition to bring it's advance to a temporary hold, but advances if itself shows to be stronger in expansive power than the defenders of foreign places. In that it seems to be anarchism, but different to that it sees a very strong centralised power: it's rules and laws, the dogma. So it cannot be anarchism.

It also is no the italian black shirts, obviously.

1. It is totalitarianism.
2. It is aggressive in claiming world dominance as it's evolutional goal and God-wanted natural claim.
3. It is agggressively expansionistic.

plus:

4. Like any tyrannic political ideology and like any theistic religion, it want's man to be unfree and submitting to it's claims for power (the "faith").

But Islam is not Nazism, communism, anarchism or fascism.

The debate has nothing to do with racism or freedom of religious practicing. These claims just get instrumentalised to give people critical of islamisation or the church's demands for communal influence and political power a bad name. That the church helps islam in europe is for bringing all people under control of relgious influence again - it is not by random chance, but calculation.

Skybird,

I thought nazism is right up your alley. Didn't you have a neo-nazi past?

You really have become a sad character in my books

I consider your book to be of little value.

As a demonstration of how little value ....

Im my books

......holds, lets have a look at your recent efforts.

Accusing me of lying is something i would expect from you.

was what you said true or untrue then?

Neither of those names said nothing to me before i googled them..

so it was untrue then. I am astounded
I would have thought that you would have at least been familiar with the Finn who was leading the campaign by the bus drivers.
For entertainment value can you repeat his religion please?

Fact of the matter is that the protesting muslim bus drivers was the story on the media here.

That speaks volumes of the media and it speaks of those who simply believe at face value what they hear in the news.

Here is an interwiew of Jussi K. Niemelä,

Ah you post a link to the people associated with those organising the posters , well done , have you read their material on the campaign , they are happy with the response they have created worldwide and have lots of artices and links to articles.
Though it raises a couple of questions.....
How can Niemala possibly be making a claim that it was only Muslims when their own coverage includes the other protests?
either he is lying or the media is lying or both.
The second question of course refer to....

This has either been organized or for some other reason the muslims react this strong here in Finland.

He is of course speaking specificly about the bus drivers there isn't he. Can you find an ongoing reason why some of the bus drivers are very pissed off and have been since 2003?
Is that longstanding reason part of a cause for the reaction from those particular individuals(I suppose you will have to ask thier union and their employers if you ain't up to date with events).

Did they threatn with an strike?
Did they tear posters?
No, who did?
Oh yeah, the muslims.

Errrrrr....don't you mean drivers of several religions.
Hold on, as you wrote.....

When this forum has a lot of Finns it would be bordering crazy to post anything intentionally false information.

....and by now you clearly know it is false information does that mean you are crazy?

Islam isnt a race.

Irrelevant. Religion is covered under racial discrimination concerning ethnicity.

These claims just get instrumentalised to give people critical of islamisation or the church's demands for communal influence and political power a bad name. That the church and islam work hand in hand in europe to bring all people under ciontrol of relgious influence again, is not by random chance, but calculation.

No Skybird, the bad name is generated when you have to make things up to fit your views ...like a Jewish judge who is well known for work against discrimination and is a zionist somehow suddenly being an anti-semite becaus eyou don't like one half of his report......or as Happy Times did by ignoring the reality of events and claiming its "just the Muslims" even after he knows it ain't true.

[XabbaRus]

Closing this thread temporarily before it really goes south.

Will possibly reopen after discussion with relevant people.