Should the airline industry be re-regulated?

[GoldenRivet]

October, 1978. Jimmy Carter signs the Airline Deregulation Act removing government regulation from the Airline Industry.

The intention of the act was to remove government controls on ticket prices, routes and various restrictions to upstart air carriers.

Overnight, the United States Airline Industry became arguably the most heavily regulated, "deregulated" industry in the world.

The question i pose to you:

Should the United States Government Repeal the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, thereby Re-Regulating the Airline Industry?

Virtually the only good thing to come from De-Regulation has been the drastic reduction in ticket price for the consumer as a result of increased competetion... but at what cost?

Since deregulation, aviation professionals have seen their salaries shrink to rock bottom, slashed time and time again.

The Industry has been flooded with small, regional upstart airlines which employee under qualified, inexperienced aviators which are payed a rate comparable to the national minimum wage for their services.

Meanwhile, management and other exectuives routinely see 6 and 7 fuigure salaries with 6 and 7 figure bonuses.

We have seen numerous safety violations and fleet groundings as recently as 2007-2008 with major carriers like American and Southwest who have failed to comply with important maintenance requirements critical to flight safety.

Congress has taken steps in the right direction with the house passage of the "Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009".

The act would regulate flight time minimums, licensing requirements and and experience requirements for newly hired pilots working on the airline level. Bumping the flight time minimums up to 1,500 hours as a starting point for hiring instead of a high point... and raising licensing requirements to an "Airline Transport Pilot Certificate" instead of the regular "Commercial Pilot Certificate" for any applicant to be considered for a position.

Many of the "airline pilots" newly hired into the large, coast to coast regional airline i once worked for had less than 400 hours total flight experience, and had only entered the aviation industry 18-24 months prior to their date of employment! One applicant even had just 260 total flight hours! 10 hours more than the FAA minimum to obtain a commercial pilot's license!




Should airline salaries be standardized and regulated by the government? If so, this would make the airline industry attractive again to more experienced pilots working in the private sector. It would drive managment and executive salaries and bonuses down to more reasonable figures.

Should Airline Hiring Minimums be standardized and regulated? No more "hundred hour wonder pilots" being hired by bridge programs from aviation universities... many of todays new hire pilots have never flown any aircraft larger than a Beechcraft Baron, many of todays new hires have never experienced severe turbulence or icing conditions... many of them lack the overall experience to be contributing cockpit crew members.

Should the Government regulate airline ticket prices? No more flexing rates or fares, no more hidden baggage fees... no more reason to chose one carrier over another due to anything other than customer service and safety record.

I had to vote no.
The effects of Regulation followed by "Deregulation" had exactly the same effects on the trucking industry.

Contrary to the way it sounds the government has increased regulation of the trucking industry following "deregulation". More and more old-timers are being frustrated out of the industry to be replaced by, for all intensive purposes, amateurs. I don't think USA's driving public has any problem seeing that. It's a sad state of affairs.

Regulation forces companies to buy Rights to certain routes. It has nothing to do with safety. The damage is already done. Further action by the government can only cause further damage. So many of the original union carriers that were protected from competition by regulation are gone. Re-regulation is not going to bring them back.

[GoldenRivet]

I think that in the very least, salary, compensation, benefits and the minimum required experience to enter the airline flight deck should be regulated.

When i worked on the Regional Airline level i made $18,000 my first year there... by the close of my 3rd year there i was barely making $23,000... another 3 years i would have met my salary cap for seat and equipment at under $30,000.

When you consider that a pilot (in this example) is only being paid while actually flying... and you compare that annual figure to the number of hours i was actually on duty (ie. physically required to be on the job) you will find that my annual salary equated to a little over $7.xx per hour.

ad into the mix that you have thousands of 20 something year old men and women out there who say

1. i could be a doctor... but thats 8 years of medical school i cant afford

2. I could be a lawyer... but that means expensive law school

3. I can be an airline pilot in 24 months for about $40,000 worth of education

they generally go with option 3

this floods the market with individuals - some of whom i know personally - that are quite grossly unqualified for the job... some of them... down right incompetent!

[Sailor Steve]

I don't know, GR. I'm normally against government interference of any kind, but you make a very good case.

I always thought pilots were highly paid. Minimum wage? That's what I made in the bookstore. Sounds weird to me.

[nikimcbee]

GR, are you feeling ok? The next thing I know, you'll be telling me what a good idea centralized healthcare is.

Command economy good; capitalism baaaaad.

Let me think about your question first.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

GR, are you feeling ok? The next thing I know, you'll be telling me what a good idea centralized healthcare is.

Command economy good; capitalism baaaaad.

Let me think about your question first.

hahahaha

im ok Niki thanks for the concern.

You know it isnt like me to support Government intervention

However in this case... Airline travel is an essential part of our national infrastructure, in many ways it is directly tied to national security even.

safety / quality of the personnel is paramount.

If a wee smidge of government regulation (and by all means i dont mean pre-1978 regulation) but a wee smidge of regulation in the department of Salaries, Training and Hiring requirments were to be made... i personally think it would do the industry some good.

EDIT:

under the current rules and regs... Billy Bob's Discount Airline can hire any pilot they want without regard to his experience level. In many cases... seeking to take full advantage of cheap labor, the airlines will hire 23 and 24 year old pilots, FRESH out of school - and in many cases airline work is the individuals FIRST taste of an aviation related job.

personally- i want my airline pilot to be the guy who spent 4 years as an instructor, and 2 years hauling cargo in the dead of night before upgrading to hauling my arse around.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I always thought pilots were highly paid. Minimum wage? That's what I made in the bookstore. Sounds weird to me.

many of the most senior captains are paid very well.

However, for the first 10-15 years of your airline career - near minimum wage is the standard.

I worked for a regional airline for 3 years, and my advertised pay scale was about $21 $22.50 and $23.50 per flight hour.

the key word of course is "per flight hour" - you are only being paid for flight time.

so given a 14 hour duty day, you may only fly 5 hours.

Consider the following statistics which i dont mind sharing with you

Year One Earnings: $18,500 ($21 x 881 flight hours)

average days / month on duty: 16 days

average hours on duty per day: 13 hours

average hours on duty per month: 208 hours

average hours on duty per year one: 2496 hours

Hourly wage based upon number of hours actually on duty:

$18.500 divided by 2496 = $7.41/hr

using this formula... year 2 and year 3 were about a $1 hourly rate increase each year

[nikimcbee]

yeah, but you're not taking into consideration the 1 big perk: hot stewardess'

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

yeah, but you're not taking into consideration the 1 big perk: hot stewardess'

They have to hire 50% guys now, per government regulations.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

They have to hire 50% guys now, per government regulations.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

yeah, but you're not taking into consideration the 1 big perk: hot stewardess'

LMAO

lets just say that for every ONE of these



there was about 500 of these...



and about 1,000 of these...

[Sailor Steve]

Wassamatta, McBee? You don't like the idea of being served by a hot steward?

[sharkbit]

Sounds like a lot hasn't really changed.

My first job out of A&P school in 1988 was with a regional airline for USscare, er...I mean USAir. I started at $7.75. I was making more than a lot of the First Officers that were flying Dash 8's.

Reading the reports on the Dash 8 crash in Syracuse last winter scares the hell out of me concerning the lack of experience that the FO had in icing. Sounds like the captain wasn't exactly bursting with experience as well.

[DivingDuck]

Moin GR,

although I am not a fan of governmental regulation I do fully understand you. May major concern lies with safety. Competition is good, but SAFETY should always go first. Aviation is a sovereign issue and should be treated as such. Competition does not ask for safety. Stock quotation is everything that matters nowadays. Therefore governmental regulation can indeed save countless lives. I´m not in the US, but the direction we´re heading in good old Europe is the same. Discount airlines booming everywhere. Even the big airlines run their own subsidiary discount companies to stand the competition. Pilots flying for a minimum salary are not unknown here too. But how do you tell the customer that safety is not available for free? What is safety? Maybe experience can contribute to safety? Of course it can. But judging by their voices especially girlie pilots seem to have entered cockpit service directly after finishing kindergarten. I do not complain about young pilots. But there has to be some instance regulating the quality of pilot´s training. Regulating minimum prices and salaries would save a certain standard of safety. So, you got me voting for 'YES'.

Regards,
DD

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Wassamatta, McBee? You don't like the idea of being served by a hot steward?

No!
My last flight was this:


The flight before that was this:


I went through a lot of drinks!