Realistic sub tactics with aircraft

[Apocal]

Originally Posted by vanjast

Hypothetical situation:

One sub on the surface going at 9 knots Std speed, one below the surface at 1 knot, both going west.

A target is coming from north to south and is just out of range of sonar and surface radar. Assuming they both on a long search leg, who's going to pick up the target first - The submerged boat

Care to actually explain your conclusion?

By the same token, if there was a ship far to the northwest going south - then it's the surfaced boat.

The submerged boat by sonar tracking over about 30-60 minutes track the sourse and speed of the boat, and then plot an intercept solution. Then surface and flank speed to this point, submerge and do the process again.
During this process batteries are charged, using less fuel compared to beating about the ocean.

The surfaced boat spotting the ship, visual or surface radar has to do the same thing.

Except radar also gives you accurate range, so your intercept solution is more or less automatic unless the target changes course.

[vanjast]

Originally Posted by Apocal

Care to actually explain your conclusion?

Surface sub sails away from target and misses it (but will pick up the other ship which the submerged ship won't), Target sails towards submerged sub, which picks it up on passive sonar.

Originally Posted by Apocal

Except radar also gives you accurate range, so your intercept solution is more or less automatic unless the target changes course.

Depending on weather, which effects both radar and passive sonar ranges - Yes, but both have to get into strike position ahead of the target.
This usually requires a bit of flank/full surface speeds, using up a lot of fuel.

Any target course changes can ruin the setup phase, unless the course is towards the sub.

[Apocal]

Originally Posted by vanjast

Surface sub sails away from target and misses it (but will pick up the other ship which the submerged ship won't), Target sails towards submerged sub, which picks it up on passive sonar.

This kind of hypothetical really demands a picture to reference. At anyrate, the conclusion that a submerged submarine that a submerged sub will find a target using a sensor with a lower effective search radius is... bizarre at best.

Unless you're cherry-picking your hypothetical to support the idea that searching at a slower speed with lower effective search radius will get you more contacts.

Depending on weather, which effects both radar and passive sonar ranges

Radar, even old-school sets like the SJ, is far less affected by weather in general. Sonar just flat doesn't work in some conditions. In-game sonar definitely has shorter range, regardless of weather. Surfaced, moving faster (using as much or less fuel), with a larger effective search radius... I'm not sure how this would lead to less contacts under any equivalent circumstances.

- Yes, but both have to get into strike position ahead of the target. This usually requires a bit of flank/full surface speeds, using up a lot of fuel.

Nah, I can usually close up a slow convoy with nothing more than standard bell. I never use flank unless I'm absolutely hauling ass away from some flaming datum.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by vanjast

Surface sub sails away from target and misses it (but will pick up the other ship which the submerged ship won't), Target sails towards submerged sub, which picks it up on passive sonar.

That's assuming both hypothetical subs are in the same position. If the merchant comes along severl hours after your scenario starts then

A) The surfaced sub will be miles beyond where the target is, and will never see it, or

B) The submerged sub will be miles behind where the target is, and will never know it's there.

Either way, it's only theoretical, and it ceases to be a valid test.

This usually requires a bit of flank/full surface speeds, using up a lot of fuel.

How much is "a bit" of flank or full speed? Five hours at flank speed doesn't mean a lot to a submarine carrying enough fuel for a 60-day patrol at standard speed, even if fuel consumption is doubled.