Hacked Emails Show Climate Science Ridden with Rancor

[Skybird]

Actually I am critical of Kopenhagen, because politicians still raise the - false - impression that it is within their reach to adress major issues with climate if only they wish that. But the truth is that the tagetted CO2 emmission cuts are expensive, and simply are not enough both in quality and quantity, and even this insufficient goal will not be met anyway.

German edition of Der Spiegel has a good essay on right this today, to my surprise matching my own opinion to very wide degrees. I hope they translate it for their international edition in the coming days, then I will link it.

[SteamWake]

This should be enough to give anyone pause...

(CNSNews.com) – House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) endorsed the idea of a “global” tax on stock trades and other financial transactions, saying the estimated $150 billion in annual revenue from such a tax could be used to help fund more stimulus spending.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/58099

[Skybird]

Actually you are pointing at a problem that is impossible to be solved by current paradigms, Respenus.

We are too many people on this planet.

The standard by which we politically define the material propserity of people that is understood to be their natural right, is defined by Wetsern stnadrs. And these standards are way too high.

Supporting prosperity for so many people on basis of such excessive living standards, is impossible.

Even if we would massively lower the living standards for all people, including ourselves, we would be too many people.

And even if we would be only a fraction of the global population we are today, our current living standards would be too high.

[NeonSamurai]

The only way we could maintain the western style of life for everyone with out trashing the environment, is if the human population was cut down to maybe 100-500 million, and used robotics or whatever for labor.

It is an impossibility as Sky said to fix the problem of poverty, resources, etc. As there are way to many people as it is, and the population continues to increase, mainly in those poorest of countries. This is also why the situation is so bad in these countries, as they have limited resources to begin with, and yet keep reproducing like mad (even with contraception made available to them).

I would also say that

we have billions out there who live worse lives than frankly an animal.

isn't quite true (unless you are talking a wild animal in its natural environment). Factory farming of animals, is in general beyond horrific, and far worse then what most people suffer in general. The only good thing that can be said is that at least the animals are not starving, but that is the only good thing.

Otherwise I more or less agree that our current system is highly flawed. Frankly I think we are heading towards major trouble, and that trouble is pretty much unavoidable.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

This should be enough to give anyone pause...



http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/58099

Pelosi is just flat out dangerous and needs to join reality with the rest of us.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Actually I am critical of Kopenhagen, because politicians still raise the - false - impression that it is within their reach to adress major issues with climate if only they wish that. But the truth is that the tagetted CO2 emmission cuts are expensive, and simply are not enough both in quality and quantity, and even this insufficient goal will not be met anyway.

German edition of Der Spiegel has a good essay on right this today, to my surprise matching my own opinion to very wide degrees. I hope they translate it for their international edition in the coming days, then I will link it.

Actually they were very quick. Here it is:

"Why failure in Copenhagen would be a success"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...665703,00.html