Come and see the wonderful future of anarcholiberalism

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

On the subject of privileged vs hardworking, let me tell a little of my life. I'm one of those self-diagnosed borderline-Aspergers people i.e. mostly thick as sh!t but with a bizarre talent for maths. I grew up in poverty (and when I say "poverty" I don't mean "I sometimes had to make do without chocolate") but luckily for me the UK government was still paying for people's degrees when I turned 18, so off to Cambridge I went. Now although its true that Cambridge make offers based soley on ability and subject knowledge, it's also true that (a) money buys a good pre-university education and (b) the middle and upper classes tend to be more interested in sending their kids to Oxbridge anyway. Consequently, Cambridge turned out to be full of middle and upper class toffs. These were not the sort of kids that had ever had to go without dinner because daddy and the other miners were on strike. But that didn't seem to lower their drive/motivation. They were by far the most driven and competitive and hard working people I've ever known.

They are, to me, absolute proof that a (financially) difficult childhood is not required in order for someone to end up being a hard working individual.

You're a Cambridge alumunus? Frak me! I had no idea, I just thought you were a really smart guy. My respect to you, sir

I almost hate to say it now, but I think you might be overlooking something (or at least you didn't mention it) when it comes to the drive for success, namely incentive.

Interesting how those rich toffs could be driven to strive for success, isn't it? They already had everything they needed and yet they wanted more. Why do you suppose that is? I'd offer my opinion but I'd like to get that of a Cambridge scholar first. Please?

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

You're a Cambridge alumunus? Frak me! I had no idea, I just thought you were a really smart guy. My respect to you, sir

I almost hate to say it now, but I think you might be overlooking something (or at least you didn't mention it) when it comes to the drive for success, namely incentive.

Interesting how those rich toffs could be driven to strive for success, isn't it? They already had everything they needed and yet they wanted more. Why do you suppose that is? I'd offer my opinion but I'd like to get that of a Cambridge scholar first. Please?

Assuming you're sincere: thank you but I probably don't deserve that much respect seeing as I was the "wooden spoon" in my year. But I did pass my degree and I'm proud that I managed to even get in.

My answer to your question: parents. And to be honest, not necessarily good ones IMO. I think there's an "ideal" middle ground between raising kids who are lazy and raising kids who have a "not good enough" complex. I'm curious to know whether that's what you think or not...

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Assuming you're sincere: thank you but I probably don't deserve that much respect seeing as I was the "wooden spoon" in my year. But I did pass my degree and I'm proud that I managed to even get in.

My answer to your question: parents. And to be honest, not necessarily good ones IMO. I think there's an "ideal" middle ground between raising kids who are lazy and raising kids who have a "not good enough" complex.

Trust me, I am very sincere on this, wooden spoon be damned! It is a priviledge to talk to a person who survived the crucible of such a reputable institution. I have so many questions!

Please understand, I've never really had the chance to attend a school of repute. I am mostly self-taught. I spent less than a semester at the University of North Texas before I became disgusted by the curriculum and quit.

I'm a little baffled by your answer, though. Parents? That's it? What makes a "middle ground"? And more importantly, what psychological and biological mechanisms dictate the actions of parents? I know that this kind of topic may not be your specialty, but I'd appreciate a thorough evaluation, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. You have no idea what your opinion means to me as a contextual basis for my own.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Trust me, I am very sincere on this, wooden spoon be damned! It is a priviledge to talk to a person who survived the crucible of such a reputable institution. I have so many questions!

Please understand, I've never really had the chance to attend a school of repute. I am mostly self-taught. I spent less than a semester at the University of North Texas before I became disgusted by the curriculum and quit.

I'm a little baffled by your answer, though. Parents? That's it? What makes a "middle ground"? And more importantly, what psychological and biological mechanisms dictate the actions of parents? I know that this kind of topic may not be your specialty, but I'd appreciate a thorough evaluation, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. You have no idea what your opinion means to me as a contextual basis for my own.

Er... you're freaking me out a bit.

Thorough evaluation? Eek.

Yeah, there are other factors, that goes without saying. What psychological and biological factors dictate the actions of parents? Christ... do you expect me to produce some sort of all-encompassing thesis on human nature? Sorry, but I can't. What's more I don't have kids yet, but I plan to within the next few years and this question is troubling me as well: how do I get that middle ground? Seems to me there's a lot of middle-grounds to try to reach in order to be a good parent and I've not really got the slightest clue how to make sure I don't raise "unbalanced" kids.

It might help me if you narrow-down your question a bit. As it stands I feel like I'm being asked the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. To give what answer I can (an expansion of my original answer) it seemed to me that many (not all) of the kids I met were motivated to succeed in order to gain a sense of worth. Seems to me that the sense of worth of an individual - up to a certain (and not exact) age - is primarily based on their perception of what their family (and their parents in particular) think of them. I've got no "proof" of that, it's just my opinion based on nothing in particular.

[NeonSamurai]

I think the answer frankly is balancing out all the sides. Don't spoil them, yet don't starve them either. Give them lots of love, but also lots of discipline. If they want something, make them earn it.

Frankly I think kids today are coddled and spoiled way to much, and utterly lack in discipline. I also think daycare and both parents working is problematic as well. I feel this is what is creating people who only care about themselves, and feel entitled to everything, since many of them have been given what ever they wanted, for no effort on their part.

Look at the stuff kids are running around with today: blackberries, iPods, iPhones, etc. I love watching them in class and on the bus furiously texting each other, like what they are doing is the most important thing in the entire universe. My mom likes to call them the "me and more" generation, its all about me, and me wants more more more (doesn't matter what just as long as it is more).

Sure these kids can be goal driven, but their drive stems entirely from pure greed. Which I think has been brought on by a society of rampant consumerism. We have been bombarded by advertising, telling us we need to buy all of this crap, and people are doing just that.


Btw the answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is 42

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I think the answer frankly is balancing out all the sides. Don't spoil them, yet don't starve them either. Give them lots of love, but also lots of discipline. If they want something, make them earn it.

Frankly I think kids today are coddled and spoiled way to much, and utterly lack in discipline. I also think daycare and both parents working is problematic as well. I feel this is what is creating people who only care about themselves, and feel entitled to everything, since many of them have been given what ever they wanted, for no effort on their part.

Look at the stuff kids are running around with today: blackberries, iPods, iPhones, etc. I love watching them in class and on the bus furiously texting each other, like what they are doing is the most important thing in the entire universe. My mom likes to call them the "me and more" generation, its all about me, and me wants more more more (doesn't matter what just as long as it is more).

Sure these kids can be goal driven, but their drive stems entirely from pure greed. Which I think has been brought on by a society of rampant consumerism. We have been bombarded by advertising, telling us we need to buy all of this crap, and people are doing just that.


Btw the answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is 42

Just about on the money Neon. Our situation is awesome. My wife teaches at the school my girls attend. Everyone goes the same direction all day. Needless to say the school is private and requires monies of course. As a result, my wife does not accept poor grades. She is of the mind that working hard to have them at this school requires hard work from them to do well. She is not paying $800.00/month for poor grades. I'm known as the "Homework Nazi." I make sure it gets done and quizzing happens.


Today is harder IMO to raise kids. The electronic gadgets, 500 TV stations on a large screen TV. No seeing friends face to face, text messages, IM and email. Then again, we bring this on ourselves but need to learn to curtail it as well. The distractions are numerous and need to be monitored.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Er... you're freaking me out a bit.
Yeah, there are other factors, that goes without saying. What psychological and biological factors dictate the actions of parents? Christ... do you expect me to produce some sort of all-encompassing thesis on human nature? Sorry, but I can't. What's more I don't have kids yet, but I plan to within the next few years and this question is troubling me as well: how do I get that middle ground? Seems to me there's a lot of middle-grounds to try to reach in order to be a good parent and I've not really got the slightest clue how to make sure I don't raise "unbalanced" kids. It might help me if you narrow-down your question a bit. As it stands I feel like I'm being asked the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. To give what answer I can (an expansion of my original answer) it seemed to me that many (not all) of the kids I met were motivated to succeed in order to gain a sense of worth. Seems to me that the sense of worth of an individual - up to a certain (and not exact) age - is primarily based on their perception of what their family (and their parents in particular) think of them. I've got no "proof" of that, it's just my opinion based on nothing in particular.

Totally understandable. Sorry for creeping you out. It isn't every day I get to ask real academics for their opinions.

[onelifecrisis]

I thought there were a lot of "academics" in here, no? Anyway, did I answer your Q at least in part? You alluded to having your own answer/theory but you haven't told me what it is...

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, there are other factors, that goes without saying. What psychological and biological factors dictate the actions of parents? Christ... do you expect me to produce some sort of all-encompassing thesis on human nature? Sorry, but I can't. What's more I don't have kids yet, but I plan to within the next few years and this question is troubling me as well: how do I get that middle ground? Seems to me there's a lot of middle-grounds to try to reach in order to be a good parent and I've not really got the slightest clue how to make sure I don't raise "unbalanced" kids.

I have two children. Unbalanced? To be honest, as parents (my wife and I) are on the same page as far as discipline, etc. The home needs to have a sense of calm and stability. IMO, this creates a balanced well rounded kid. Also, practice what you preach. Kids emulate what their parents do and say. You know what is right and what is wrong. Kids learn this from you. The scary part is when they become teenagers and outside influences begin to mold them a bit. My 14 year old...man... Sometimes for the worst. Ask questions and make rules. Simple as that. Just remember, you were a teenager once and you know what the deal is....funny how they attempt to pull the wool over your eyes.