The Boxer

Sailor Steve · 11-25-09, 01:44 AM

No. If I knew beyond all doubt that a certain activity would kill me at a certain point, I wouldn't do it. But we never know that. It's a risk, yes, but a certainty?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I have never understood why these men have the desire to climb into a boxing ring, or an MMA cage or any other arena and rather pointlessly beat the living crap out of one another's heads.

For the same reason that young men go to war. It's a thrill, there are reasons and excuses, and it's always the other guy who's going to die, not me.

kiwi_2005 · 11-25-09, 09:03 AM

nothing wrong with boxing, helps release alot of anger built up. Best thing for a young man is to get in a ring and go a few rounds - far better than going to a bar and drinking a few rounds.

11-25-09, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

nothing wrong with boxing, helps release alot of anger built up. Best thing for a young man is to get in a ring and go a few rounds - far better than going to a bar and drinking a few rounds.

Yea I agree. Even if one only does the calisthenics/shadow boxing/cardio stuff and not the actual fighting/sparring then it's a good sport for both men and women. Gives confidence and is good for people of all ages.

August · 11-25-09, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No. If I knew beyond all doubt that a certain activity would kill me at a certain point, I wouldn't do it. But we never know that. It's a risk, yes, but a certainty?

For the same reason that young men go to war. It's a thrill, there are reasons and excuses, and it's always the other guy who's going to die, not me.

Yeah although they rarely admit it, young men are often convinced of their immortality.

Oberon · 11-25-09, 05:22 PM

Bingo, I mean if you're asking why people box, then you might as well ask why people go to war, or play NFL or any other sport which incurs physical damage, not so long ago a report claimed that 'heading' a football increases the likelihood of brain damage. Take from that what you will.
However, at the end of the day no two people on this Earth are exactly alike, and while I agree Boxing certainly doesn't have the appeal today than it used to in the days of Ali, or even Tyson and Bruno (although the recent news about the short Brit who took down that tall Russian gave me a grin, talk about David and Goliath) but surely it's better in the ring between two guys who want to fight, than in the street between a guy who wants a fight and an innocent passer by, something which we see a lot of in the UK these days.

Kiwi and OTH are quite right in a way, it's no surprise that in the British Army and I'm sure the US Army too, there is several boxing teams, quite competative ones too, and they can be put to good use with some people who have, shall we say, a more aggressive streak than others, and the discipline instilled in a) the army and b) the training for boxing. Actually, come to think of it, I think they also used to put in chaps who had confidence problems, help build them up, that kinda thing. I don't know if it still goes on in the British Army...probably too much red tape, but I'm pretty sure that twenty-thirty years ago the chaps used to go in the ring.

I've never boxed, never will, and have no particular desire to, however I understand that there are those that do, and to them I say, good luck, so long as they know what they're getting themselves into and accept that, then good luck to 'em.

GoldenRivet · 11-25-09, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I've never boxed, never will, and have no particular desire to, however I understand that there are those that do, and to them I say, good luck, so long as they know what they're getting themselves into and accept that, then good luck to 'em.

I agree.

wonder how his widow and infant daughter feel about it though?

The point i was trying to make...

such a waste at just 25 years old.

of course we all take risks just climbing into the shower in the morning... but while taking a shower is not a particularly risky activity; boxing and ama fighting are inherently dangerous, lethally so.

Oberon · 11-25-09, 06:13 PM

The armed forces are also a deep risk, and people younger than 25 die in it, boxing is just one such example of high risk sports, although it's probably one of the most publicised of them, but Ice Hockey is another pretty brutal game at times although it has better safety features. Base jumping, bull riding, cliff diving, cliff climbing (and I mean the nutters without the ropes). It is pretty darn selfish though to do this if you have a wife and kids though, and it's about that time that the gloves should be hung up if not before hand. Although in some peoples case, it's their sport that brings in the money for their lifestyle, look at the Rooneys and the Beckhams, their sport opened up the gateway to their life and admittedly now they can probably bring in as much money off the pitch as they can on it they are still living the life of riley because of a sport which can be dangerous, not as dangerous as boxing, obviously, but still can cause serious injuries at times, likewise rugby players, moreso in fact.
It's a bit of a catch-22 really, but I do agree with the sentiment you bring up on the dependents of people in high risk sports.

GoldenRivet · 11-25-09, 06:15 PM

good points you have made oberon.

on the other hand... very few people join the military or perform some other highly dangerous job for the "sport" of doing so.

Oberon · 11-25-09, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

good points you have made oberon.

on the other hand... very few people join the military or perform some other highly dangerous job for the "sport" of doing so.

True, true, and equally some people do not take up boxing purely for sport. Some might live in an area of economic downturn and find that they can earn money whacking other people for the entertainment of others and since they enjoy a bit of a punch up outside the pub of a Friday night, it's a better prospect than signing on, or in the days of old, going down the pit or in the mills where your average live expectancy was probably not that far off the average boxers.
Of course, in the current era such circumstances are becoming fewer and farer between and, as has already been stated, boxing has seen a decline over recent years, but street violence has risen, is that unbridled rage that might have gone into the ring, or into the army in years past the same that stalks the streets at night with a tin in its hand ready to 'kick off' at someone who looks at them 'funny'? I know where it would be better served than on the local council estate and that is in the ring where a measure of self-discipline could be taught alongside anger releasing fights. However, this is travelling outside the moral dillemma which is the question we have asked ourselves and into more defined scenarios. To some people sport is not a 'sport' it is a way of life, it is like art, artists don't paint because they feel like it, they paint because they want money for their work for the most part, and it is perhaps at that point where sport and art, stop being sport and art and become a job.
I once asked my grandfather, who is quite a talented artist on the quiet, why he didn't do it professionally, and he replied to me that he enjoyed painting, he'd go down to his little garden shed and pass the hours behind a canvas at his own leisure, but if he had to do this to a deadline, he couldn't do it as well as he does because it would no longer be leisure, it would be work and work is very rarely fun!

However, on the flip side, no-one says that you have to remain a boxer or artist for the rest of your life, but I fear that it is human nature to always want a little bit more, and once money flies in, common sense often flies out...and thus it's always a case of 'The next match will be my last'.

There is one other aspect I think that should be addressed though...

Who is truely at fault for the death of a 25 year old boxer though? The boxer himself, or the audience that continues to pay the boxing trade? Would people continue to box professionally if there was no money in it?

Something to think about while I try and figure out what I've just typed because I'm rambling again because it's 2:09am....

August · 11-25-09, 06:46 PM

I'm thinking more about the average person. I regard voluntarily risking ones neck as an important character building life experience for a young man.

GoldenRivet · 11-25-09, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I'm thinking more about the average person. I regard voluntarily risking ones neck as an important character building life experience for a young man.

true

but to what end?

voluntarily risking one's neck for the purposes of national security or to protect the innocent or to provide for the betterment of mankind etc

thats one thing

but what about voluntarily risking one's neck for the sake of seeing their name in lights? or winning a $50,000 purse to spend on a sports car?

motivation says a lot about the intent and about the sort of "character" the indivudual will be building too

11-25-09, 09:03 AM	#2
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	nothing wrong with boxing, helps release alot of anger built up. Best thing for a young man is to get in a ring and go a few rounds - far better than going to a bar and drinking a few rounds. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

11-25-09, 06:15 PM	#8
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	good points you have made oberon. on the other hand... very few people join the military or perform some other highly dangerous job for the "sport" of doing so. __________________

11-25-09, 06:46 PM	#10
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,217 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm thinking more about the average person. I regard voluntarily risking ones neck as an important character building life experience for a young man. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

11-25-09, 05:22 PM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Bingo, I mean if you're asking why people box, then you might as well ask why people go to war, or play NFL or any other sport which incurs physical damage, not so long ago a report claimed that 'heading' a football increases the likelihood of brain damage. Take from that what you will. However, at the end of the day no two people on this Earth are exactly alike, and while I agree Boxing certainly doesn't have the appeal today than it used to in the days of Ali, or even Tyson and Bruno (although the recent news about the short Brit who took down that tall Russian gave me a grin, talk about David and Goliath) but surely it's better in the ring between two guys who want to fight, than in the street between a guy who wants a fight and an innocent passer by, something which we see a lot of in the UK these days. Kiwi and OTH are quite right in a way, it's no surprise that in the British Army and I'm sure the US Army too, there is several boxing teams, quite competative ones too, and they can be put to good use with some people who have, shall we say, a more aggressive streak than others, and the discipline instilled in a) the army and b) the training for boxing. Actually, come to think of it, I think they also used to put in chaps who had confidence problems, help build them up, that kinda thing. I don't know if it still goes on in the British Army...probably too much red tape, but I'm pretty sure that twenty-thirty years ago the chaps used to go in the ring. I've never boxed, never will, and have no particular desire to, however I understand that there are those that do, and to them I say, good luck, so long as they know what they're getting themselves into and accept that, then good luck to 'em.

11-25-09, 06:13 PM	#7
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	The armed forces are also a deep risk, and people younger than 25 die in it, boxing is just one such example of high risk sports, although it's probably one of the most publicised of them, but Ice Hockey is another pretty brutal game at times although it has better safety features. Base jumping, bull riding, cliff diving, cliff climbing (and I mean the nutters without the ropes). It is pretty darn selfish though to do this if you have a wife and kids though, and it's about that time that the gloves should be hung up if not before hand. Although in some peoples case, it's their sport that brings in the money for their lifestyle, look at the Rooneys and the Beckhams, their sport opened up the gateway to their life and admittedly now they can probably bring in as much money off the pitch as they can on it they are still living the life of riley because of a sport which can be dangerous, not as dangerous as boxing, obviously, but still can cause serious injuries at times, likewise rugby players, moreso in fact. It's a bit of a catch-22 really, but I do agree with the sentiment you bring up on the dependents of people in high risk sports.