The Boxer

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

We do it all the time. We sneer at the Japanese sumo wrestlers killing themselves by mutating their bodies in unhealthy ways.

Meanwhile, the nasty secret is that the average lifespan of your garden variety NFL lineman is about 45 years! Five years of glory--15 years of physical misery from the accumulated injuries and death at half a lifespan. That's just great! I daresay sumo wrestlers do better than that...

Yet, how much glory do we heap on these suicide warriors? How many healthy, physically capable kids are devoting all their dreams, thoughts and energies to attaining a position of death today?

Hell! We won't permit people to smoke because it MIGHT subtract five years from their lives, but we make heroes of people willingly sacrificing 30 to 45 years! Yay us!!!!

Need we talk about rock musicians?

I can agree with a lot of that.

where we dont see eye to eye is the smoking thing.

I'm personally glad they have outlawed smoking in public places in my town.

its not the smoker's health i am worried about... its mine.

though i fully support one's right to smoke (i even enjoy a good cigar once every 18-24 months)

i cant say that i much appreciate cigarette smoke puffing around all over my family and myself while we are trying to enjoy dinner.

Cigar and Pipe smoke generally has a pleasing aroma and depending on the brand can be almost incense like - cigarette smoke on the other hand... most brands just have a rather unpleasant odor which stings the nostrils with a kind of bitterness.

if im hanging around in a bar, a strip club, on a camp site or on an aircraft tarmac - i certainly dont mind cigarette smoke as in those certain situations it is almost expected.

of course all of this is just my opinion - many might disagree.

but there is a time and a place for a smoke, and a classy restaurant at 6pm is not the place nor the time.

as far as football players go, it is a rather destructive lifestyle, and depending on the position you play you can walk away with broken limbs or a concussion... however injuries that could be considered "immediately life threatening" are exceptionally rare in the game of football.

in the cage or in the ring of boxing where the objective is to knock your opponent out cold by repeatedly crushing his face or skull - yeah - something about that seems most unwise.

when i played football i never walked onto a field expecting to get hurt, and the only injury i ever suffered was a cut about 1/4 inch long on my right hand after it made contact with the sharp edge of a chin strap button on an opposing player's helmet. several seasons of play - one "minor injury".

i think when a boxer inters the ring... everybody knows someone is going to get hurt in virtually every single match.

A lot of things happen when you take a forceful impact to the head... a lot of those things can kill you instantly... others can take a few days to kill you slowly.

[August]

Let's face it folks. Life is fatal.

What kind of world would this be where there are no boxers, sumo wrestlers or NFL linemen? Where nobody does anything that might shorten their lives?

But as GoldenRivet asks in his hypothetical situation: "would you do it?"
Well the truth is there are plenty of young guys out there who would make that choice and do it eagerly.

[nikimcbee]

here's more great info about boxers:
http://www.boxerworld.com/

[Rockin Robbins]

And that, August, is an excellent point. It's time that we agree that our lives are ours, to spend as we wish. The default position of man should be freedom, with restraints on that freedom only in case of injury to others.

Yes you may solve a problem by taking away someone's freedom to act in a way you believe is harmful to themselves. But the law of unintended consequences takes over when you do. For every intended consequence of that action there will be three unintended consequences. Two of them will be bad. In this case one of the unintended consequences is that you are granting others the right to deny YOUR freedom. And I can tell you that some of that denial will definitely be unjust. The solution is worse than the problem.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

What kind of world would this be where there are no boxers, sumo wrestlers or NFL linemen?

Honestly, pretty much the same.

Concerning the original topic, as long as all the participants enter the activity knowing the risks, and are able to make reasonable efforts to mitigate the injuries; as long as they are fully and completely witting, it is their choice.

With boxers starting earlier in life though I wonder if the participants are truly witting to the risks?

Anyone remember the poem: Who killed Davey Moore, why an' what's the reason for?

[Rockin Robbins]

All of us make unknowing decisions that affect the rest of our lives. We have no right to make witting decisions. We do have an obligation not to induce others to make unwitting decisions when we posses the knowledge they need to make a better one. But if they want that knowledge and make a decision contrary to what we think wise, we STILL do not have the inherent natural right to deny their freedom to make a wrong decision so long as the only injured party is them.

Justice is a fallacy. Expectation of justice is insanity.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Honestly, pretty much the same.

I completely disagree. A society that eradicates such things would be bland indeed.

[GoldenRivet]

I agree they should have the right - im not saying they shouldn't have the right to box, or bungee jump, or play Russian roulette.

I'm just saying that in my opinion - a lot of that stuff seems foolish.

perhaps i have far too great an instinct at "self preservation"

perhaps it comes with my job of being a professional pilot and flight instructor... my job is to ask myself before every flight "what can i do to prevent my passengers and myself from getting injured or killed today?"

I have only been in a few fist fights in my life.

won a couple - lost a couple - but it certainly is not something i would intentionally climb into a ring and do before an audience.

take another example

motocross racer Jeremy Lusk... he had barely started living his adult life when he was killed during a motocross jump.

I wont call the man stupid - apparently he was doing what he loved to do - however - i will say that you wouldnt find my arse whirling 50 feet through the air upside down, holding on with one hand on a dirt bike.

life is risky business.

I agree with you guys that if you don't live your life - it is wasted.

but if you live it so hard as to die in your early 20's... is that not also a waste?

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

won a couple - lost a couple - but it certainly is not something i would intentionally climb into a ring and do before an audience.

How do you know you've won a fist fight that doesn't take place in a ring?

At least around here boxers quite often get pretty good compensation, have doctors who attend to them, get an athletes pension. If one is a boxer in some country where there is no athletes pensionsystem then I guess it can be pretty unrewarding stuff.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

How do you know you've won a fist fight that doesn't take place in a ring?

When the other guy has a broken nose, a bleeding eye and is crying in the fetal position and you are in more or less the same condition as when you started swinging.