Well... they did it

CaptainHaplo · 11-11-09, 10:04 PM

AntiKrist....

It says "provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" - not provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States CITIZENS.

Remember, the United States is two distinct words - UNITED - and STATES - aka a government that is to defend the STATES themselves, in aggregate, from any external aggressor. The system as defined in the constitution is about a federal government that is tasked to maintain the soveriegnty of each state, and resolve issues between them.

Not babysit every person in the nation. If your arguement were accurate, then its the government's job to provide me with a home, a car, all the food I need, my electricity and other untilities, as well as health care.

Buddahaid · 11-11-09, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

AntiKrist....

...... If your arguement were accurate, then its the government's job to provide me with a home, a car, all the food I need, my electricity and other untilities, as well as health care.

Could it? I'd have more time to play Silent Hunter.

Buddahaid

Platapus · 11-11-09, 10:23 PM

In reading the writings of James Madison, it appears that people have been debating this very issue of what does "Provide... for the general welfare of the United States" mean and not mean.

Both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were of the mindset that this clause did not grant congress unlimited powers.

So this is not a new debate nor one that is easily solved I am afraid.

Our Constitution, like other Constitutions, was a compromise and has different interpretations. Hence the need for a Supreme Court.

So far, the Supreme Court seems to be supportive of what Congress has been doing for at least the past 100 years.

JoeCorrado · 06-06-10, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

AntiKrist....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

It says "provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" - not provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States CITIZENS.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

BAM!! Your argument is shredded, and your premise is denied.- Have a nice day.

Platapus · 06-06-10, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

BAM!! Your argument is shredded, and your premise is denied.- Have a nice day.

That's a three pointer with nothing but net!

CaptainHaplo · 06-06-10, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

BAM!! Your argument is shredded, and your premise is denied.- Have a nice day.

Well JoeCorrado - it seems you have a problem with the meaning of words if you think that... Lets look at the meaning of the words, shall we?

Provide:
–verb (used with object)
1. to make available; furnish: to provide employees with various benefits.
2. to supply or equip: to provide the army with new fighter planes.
3. to afford or yield.
4. Law. to arrange for or stipulate beforehand, as by a provision or proviso.
5. Archaic. to prepare or procure beforehand.

–verb (used without object)
6. to take measures with due foresight (usually fol. by for or against).
7. to make arrangements for supplying means of support, money, etc. (usually fol. by for): He provided for his children in his will.
8. to supply means of support (often fol. by for): to provide for oneself.

In other words - Provide for the Common Defense means the Federal government has a responsibility to "make it happen".

Promote:
1. to help or encourage to exist or flourish; further: to promote world peace. 2. to advance in rank, dignity, position, etc.
3. Education. to put ahead to the next higher stage or grade of a course or series of classes.
4. to aid in organizing (business undertakings).
5. to encourage the sales, acceptance, etc., of (a product), esp. through advertising or other publicity.
6. Informal. to obtain (something) by cunning or trickery; wangle.

Note that promote means the federal government is to HELP, ENCOURAGE and AID in making something happen - not REQUIRE it. In other words, they have no authority to MAKE anyone do anything "for their own good".

Words have meaning my friend, it helps if you know what those meanings are.......

11-11-09, 10:04 PM	#1
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	AntiKrist.... It says "provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" - not provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States *CITIZENS.* Remember, the United States is two distinct words - UNITED - and STATES - aka a government that is to defend the STATES themselves, in aggregate, from any external aggressor. The system as defined in the constitution is about a federal government that is tasked to maintain the soveriegnty of each state, and resolve issues between them. Not babysit every person in the nation. If your arguement were accurate, then its the government's job to provide me with a home, a car, all the food I need, my electricity and other untilities, as well as health care. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

11-11-09, 10:23 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,386 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	In reading the writings of James Madison, it appears that people have been debating this very issue of what does "Provide... for the general welfare of the United States" mean and not mean. Both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were of the mindset that this clause did not grant congress unlimited powers. So this is not a new debate nor one that is easily solved I am afraid. Our Constitution, like other Constitutions, was a compromise and has different interpretations. Hence the need for a Supreme Court. So far, the Supreme Court seems to be supportive of what Congress has been doing for at least the past 100 years. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.