EU Constitution...errr I mean "Lisbon Treaty"

Skybird · 11-04-09, 06:49 AM

The Lisabon document is I think 20 pages or so of well-sounding, but relatively unspecified text - which would be fine for a constitution, since it is not meant to go into specific details. The old constituition was criticised for right this: having more than 600 (!) pages. Back to the Lisbon paper, all the critical things, the details raising controversy, the legally binding stuff - is in the 600+ pages of appendices, sometimes scattered in various locations inside these, intentionally hiding them.

This intention alone tells you all important you need to know about this agenda.

The Lisbon dicate by conetent is the same as the EU constitution that was refused by the rules the EU had set up itself. the EU then decided not to play by it's own rules, and not to let vote on it again by the people, that way claiming that these people had legitmised it by having voted national government.

This brain stunt also tells you something you need to know about this agenda.

The freedom and right to choose is meaningless if the alternatives are not real, and having the choice is pointless if you are only left to make the one choice others demand you to make - else they lie, betray and cheat on you.

Steel_Tomb · 11-05-09, 06:01 PM

Holy crap, if thats the short version whats the full one lol. Your posts should come with a warning for BIG WALLS OF TEXT!

Skybird · 11-05-09, 07:08 PM

Mostly I just SUMMARIZE the extensive criticism that more expert people have come up with. Especially the former German state president and former president of the Constitutional High Court, Roman Herzog, obviously a proffessional jurist, on my mind, and one of the most profiled European experts on the EU Lisbon dictate, but also comments made by Valery Giscard-d'Estaing and Helmut Schmidt. Herzog is picking the stuff apart paragrpah by paragrpah and brandmarks it as killing democracy where stupid catch phrases claim the opposite, and Schmidt attacks the fundamental intention and thinking behind it, and the massive deformations that had been imposed on the EU in the past 15 years or so. Both also rip apart both the legal and moral legitimation of this "document".

Two such brilliant, well-versed and uncompromised minds in close alliance to attack the EU agenda - that really is a force in argument that is hard to counter. Compared to these two, almost all other politicians defending the Lisbon dictate are just stupid babblers trying to bribe the public with slogans and untrue catchphrases.

Rhodes · 11-06-09, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Compared to these two, almost all other politicians defending the Lisbon dictate are just stupid babblers trying to bribe the public with slogans and untrue catchphrases.

You are defining Portugal prime-minister!

SS107.9MHz · 11-06-09, 11:02 AM

Two time consecutive, in for the second term, Portuguese Prime-minister

G.K. · 11-07-09, 09:15 AM

Czechs (Or at least me) are sorry for this.

Noone asked the Czech people about their opinion, it was the decision of our politicans.
Sometimes I think president Klaus is the only politician here who still uses his brain, speaking about both EU and climate change.

Shearwater · 11-07-09, 09:50 AM

If you don't like it, why did you join the EU in the first place?

11-04-09, 06:49 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,620 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The Lisabon document is I think 20 pages or so of well-sounding, but relatively unspecified text - which would be fine for a constitution, since it is not meant to go into specific details. The old constituition was criticised for right this: having more than 600 (!) pages. Back to the Lisbon paper, all the critical things, the details raising controversy, the legally binding stuff - is in the 600+ pages of appendices, sometimes scattered in various locations inside these, intentionally hiding them. This intention alone tells you all important you need to know about this agenda. The Lisbon dicate by conetent is the same as the EU constitution that was refused by the rules the EU had set up itself. the EU then decided not to play by it's own rules, and not to let vote on it again by the people, that way claiming that these people had legitmised it by having voted national government. This brain stunt also tells you something you need to know about this agenda. The freedom and right to choose is meaningless if the alternatives are not real, and having the choice is pointless if you are only left to make the one choice others demand you to make - else they lie, betray and cheat on you. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-05-09, 06:01 PM	#2
Steel_Tomb Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cambridgeshire - UK Posts: 1,128 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Holy crap, if thats the short version whats the full one lol. Your posts should come with a warning for BIG WALLS OF TEXT! __________________ _______________________________________________ System Spec: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz \| 4Gb Corsair XMS2 Dominator DDR2 PC-2 6400 RAM \| XFX GeForce 8800GTS 640mb PCI-E \| Creative X-fi sound card \| 250Gb HDD \| *Rest In Peace Dave, you will be missed.*

11-05-09, 07:08 PM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,620 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Mostly I just SUMMARIZE the extensive criticism that more expert people have come up with. Especially the former German state president and former president of the Constitutional High Court, Roman Herzog, obviously a proffessional jurist, on my mind, and one of the most profiled European experts on the EU Lisbon dictate, but also comments made by Valery Giscard-d'Estaing and Helmut Schmidt. Herzog is picking the stuff apart paragrpah by paragrpah and brandmarks it as killing democracy where stupid catch phrases claim the opposite, and Schmidt attacks the fundamental intention and thinking behind it, and the massive deformations that had been imposed on the EU in the past 15 years or so. Both also rip apart both the legal and moral legitimation of this "document". Two such brilliant, well-versed and uncompromised minds in close alliance to attack the EU agenda - that really is a force in argument that is hard to counter. Compared to these two, almost all other politicians defending the Lisbon dictate are just stupid babblers trying to bribe the public with slogans and untrue catchphrases. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-06-09, 11:02 AM	#5
SS107.9MHz Lieutenant Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Lat.40º12'82"N, Long.8º85'48"W, Portugal Posts: 256 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Two time consecutive, in for the second term, Portuguese Prime-minister __________________ Rádio Universidade de Coimbra 107.9 FM, 26 Years Of Free Radio, http://www.ruc.pt/

11-07-09, 09:15 AM	#6
G.K. Loader Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Anchoring at Vltava River, Czech Republic Posts: 84 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Czechs (Or at least me) are sorry for this. Noone asked the Czech people about their opinion, it was the decision of our politicans. Sometimes I think president Klaus is the only politician here who still uses his brain, speaking about both EU and climate change. __________________ http://silenthunter.cz/forum Proud officer of the biggest Czech SH Community

11-07-09, 09:50 AM	#7
Shearwater Captain Join Date: May 2009 Location: SUBSIM Radio Room (kinda obvious, isn't it) Posts: 542 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	If you don't like it, why did you join the EU in the first place?