Tougher escorts?

Bubblehead1980 · 11-03-09, 06:59 PM

I plan on reading that book ducimus, take it it's worth it?

I went on my little soapbox there because i believe some have the impression that the Japanese ASW was ineffective and nothing to worry about, which is just wrong.

Any good links on MAD?

Ducimus · 11-03-09, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I plan on reading that book ducimus, take it it's worth it?
...
Any good links on MAD?

I thought so. I read what i can to gain as much insight as possible. As for MAD, you'll find all sorts of info here from the horse's mouth.
http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/index.html
Search that page for "convoy", "escort", "mad" or "protection" and read the article.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faamecanic

Ducimus,

I(n) your opinion ...how does your mods DD/DE AI compare with GWX 3.0?

That is an interesting question, but your asking the difference between apples and oranges. The difference here is not in modders or a modders ability to make sound choices on sensors and mod them correctly and fairly - but in sensor's, what is appropriate or too much for the given theater, differences in game engine, and enviromental effects.

There's a rough spot in a couple places, but overall what ive done i feel is challenging enough, fair, and theater appropriate. Your question would be a fairer question to ask if I and GWX were both modding the same theater. That, and honestly, i haven't played GWX since 1.03 i think. So i have no knowledge of their current AI settings. But If we were modding the same theater, then i would say, (based on my knowledge of GWX 1.03), that i could make far better AI adjustments from what ive seen.

Faamecanic · 11-04-09, 07:32 AM

Fair enough ducimus.... I will just give TMO a whirl then and decide for myself.

As far as the difference between GWX 1.03 and 3.0...there is a world of difference. Just the fact the AI sub hunters use teamwork to hunt is amazing (1 DD sits and listens at your last pos, while 2 or 3 active sonar search).

I guess my question was more or less asking, is your mod like some I have seen where if a DD gets a lock on your position, they never seem to loose that lock and your are dead. By your reply it seems that is not the case, that while the AI is better its not invincible. Again I will just download the mod and give her a spin around a patrol or two.

Bubblehead1980 · 11-04-09, 10:18 AM

No the TMO AI is not one where it gets a lock and never loses it, depends on sonar conditions but even in ideal you can fool them, but they are tough.TMO escorts use teamwork.One will sit quietly and listen while other drops charges on you.

I found the "Dykers method" of evasion(named after Skipper of USS Jack, Tommy Dykers) to be the best method to evade TMO escorts.Since I began using it, they have not destroyed me or crippled me, caused minor damage by lucky charges but thatll happen now and then, sometimes a lucky one will sink you, name of the game.

Dykers method is a constant slow turn and change of direction.Silent running 1 knot, right full ridder.This part is my own doing and is something must do to avoid charges in TMO, DD charges in pinging roaring overhead, go to rudder amidships, you hear the splashes of charges, ahead flank, start the timer...make run of 60 seconds, all stop, left full rudder(in this case, but go whatever opposite of the rudder setting you had before the speed burst) let the momentum from the run carry you through, once speed drops to 1 or 0 knots, back to one knot.After some time and the submerged zigging, they will lose you.Also need to go pretty deep usually, just puts space between you and the charges, gives you time to evade.I believe Ducimus said he designed TMO so player would have to push the limits of the boat, well usually you have to.

Powerthighs · 11-04-09, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Dykers method is a constant slow turn and change of direction.Silent running 1 knot, right full ridder.This part is my own doing and is something must do to avoid charges in TMO, DD charges in pinging roaring overhead, go to rudder amidships, you hear the splashes of charges, ahead flank, start the timer...make run of 60 seconds, all stop, left full rudder(in this case, but go whatever opposite of the rudder setting you had before the speed burst) let the momentum from the run carry you through, once speed drops to 1 or 0 knots, back to one knot.After some time and the submerged zigging, they will lose you.Also need to go pretty deep usually, just puts space between you and the charges, gives you time to evade.I believe Ducimus said he designed TMO so player would have to push the limits of the boat, well usually you have to.

Thanks, good info!

Faamecanic · 11-04-09, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

No the TMO AI is not one where it gets a lock and never loses it, depends on sonar conditions but even in ideal you can fool them, but they are tough.TMO escorts use teamwork.One will sit quietly and listen while other drops charges on you.

I found the "Dykers method" of evasion(named after Skipper of USS Jack, Tommy Dykers) to be the best method to evade TMO escorts.Since I began using it, they have not destroyed me or crippled me, caused minor damage by lucky charges but thatll happen now and then, sometimes a lucky one will sink you, name of the game.

Dykers method is a constant slow turn and change of direction.Silent running 1 knot, right full ridder.This part is my own doing and is something must do to avoid charges in TMO, DD charges in pinging roaring overhead, go to rudder amidships, you hear the splashes of charges, ahead flank, start the timer...make run of 60 seconds, all stop, left full rudder(in this case, but go whatever opposite of the rudder setting you had before the speed burst) let the momentum from the run carry you through, once speed drops to 1 or 0 knots, back to one knot.After some time and the submerged zigging, they will lose you.Also need to go pretty deep usually, just puts space between you and the charges, gives you time to evade.I believe Ducimus said he designed TMO so player would have to push the limits of the boat, well usually you have to.

Yep good info.... I remember reading that with GWX 3.0 when depth charges are going off you still couldnt go flank ahead as the DDs would still hear you. This was explained as a SH3 game engine flaw and not reflective of real life.

Not sure if this really is true of SH3... and if it is, is this something SH4 fixed (DDs being deaf during DC attack)?

Bubblehead1980 · 11-04-09, 07:27 PM

The depth charges exploding themselves do not mask your sound but the roar of the enemys engines DO mask your sound while they are close.In RL sonar conditions were crap for a few minutes after the explosions of depth charges, which often helped subs escape.This is not mirrored in the game, which takes away realism but im actually kind of glad its like that, would be rather easy to lose them.

Hope you find the Dykers method helpful.

11-03-09, 06:59 PM	#1
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,108 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	re I plan on reading that book ducimus, take it it's worth it? I went on my little soapbox there because i believe some have the impression that the Japanese ASW was ineffective and nothing to worry about, which is just wrong. Any good links on MAD?

11-04-09, 10:18 AM	#4
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,108 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	RE No the TMO AI is not one where it gets a lock and never loses it, depends on sonar conditions but even in ideal you can fool them, but they are tough.TMO escorts use teamwork.One will sit quietly and listen while other drops charges on you. I found the "Dykers method" of evasion(named after Skipper of USS Jack, Tommy Dykers) to be the best method to evade TMO escorts.Since I began using it, they have not destroyed me or crippled me, caused minor damage by lucky charges but thatll happen now and then, sometimes a lucky one will sink you, name of the game. Dykers method is a constant slow turn and change of direction.Silent running 1 knot, right full ridder.This part is my own doing and is something must do to avoid charges in TMO, DD charges in pinging roaring overhead, go to rudder amidships, you hear the splashes of charges, ahead flank, start the timer...make run of 60 seconds, all stop, left full rudder(in this case, but go whatever opposite of the rudder setting you had before the speed burst) let the momentum from the run carry you through, once speed drops to 1 or 0 knots, back to one knot.After some time and the submerged zigging, they will lose you.Also need to go pretty deep usually, just puts space between you and the charges, gives you time to evade.I believe Ducimus said he designed TMO so player would have to push the limits of the boat, well usually you have to.

11-04-09, 07:27 PM	#7
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,108 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	re The depth charges exploding themselves do not mask your sound but the roar of the enemys engines DO mask your sound while they are close.In RL sonar conditions were crap for a few minutes after the explosions of depth charges, which often helped subs escape.This is not mirrored in the game, which takes away realism but im actually kind of glad its like that, would be rather easy to lose them. Hope you find the Dykers method helpful.

11-04-09, 07:32 AM	#3
Faamecanic Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Off your Stb side with good solution Posts: 1,065 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Fair enough ducimus.... I will just give TMO a whirl then and decide for myself. As far as the difference between GWX 1.03 and 3.0...there is a world of difference. Just the fact the AI sub hunters use teamwork to hunt is amazing (1 DD sits and listens at your last pos, while 2 or 3 active sonar search). I guess my question was more or less asking, is your mod like some I have seen where if a DD gets a lock on your position, they never seem to loose that lock and your are dead. By your reply it seems that is not the case, that while the AI is better its not invincible. Again I will just download the mod and give her a spin around a patrol or two.