'This can't be happening in our country.'

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Agreed.

Personally, I would like to see abortion cease to exist as a form of casual contraception, meaning, that no more "the condom broke" cases. In cases of rape, etc, I can see early term abortion being acceptable.

I agree there are special cases and circumstances that make abortion acceptable. However, early stage of conception the procedure should be done.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Skybird

for any further discussion of aboprtion I refer you to this most uncompromised realist I know, Dr. House. Just try to imagine what he would reply to you!

Here you go.

Originally Posted by Dr. House

HOUSE: Do you understand? Are you okay? I mean, I know you're not okay, but
are you more or less not okay than you were five minutes ago?

EVE: About the same.

HOUSE: Good. The termination procedure isn't pleasant.

EVE: I don't want to terminate.

HOUSE: You want to keep the baby?

EVE: Abortion is murder.

HOUSE: True. It's a life, and ... You should end it.

EVE: Every life is sacred.

HOUSE: Come on. Talk to me. Don't quote me bumper stickers.

EVE: It's true.

HOUSE: It's meaningless.

EVE: It means every life matters to God.

HOUSE: Not to me, not to you. Judging by the number of natural disasters, not
to God either.

EVE: You're just being argumentative.

HOUSE: Yeah! I do do that. What about Hitler? Was his life sacred to God?
Father of your child, is his life sacred to you?

EVE: My child isn't Hitler.

HOUSE: Either every life is sacred, or it--

EVE: Stop it! I don't wanna chat about philosophy.

HOUSE: You're not killing your rape baby because of a philosophy.

EVE: It's murder. I'm against it. You for it?

HOUSE: Not as a general rule.

EVE: Just for unborn children?

HOUSE: Yes. The problem with exceptions to rules is the line-drawing. It
might make sense for us to kill the ass that did this to you. I mean, where do
we draw the line? Which asses do we get to kill, and which asses get to keep on
being asses? The nice thing about the abortion debate is that we can quibble
over trimesters, but ultimately, there's a nice, clean line: birth. Morally
there isn't a lot of difference. Practically huge.

EVE: You're enjoying this conversation.

HOUSE: This is the type of conversation I do well.

EVE: But the other type ... the personal stuff?

HOUSE: (shrugs) There are no answers. If there are no answers, why talk about
it? You're healthy. You shouldn't be here.

EVE: I don't want to go.

HOUSE: Fine. I won't discharge you.

[VipertheSniper]

He has done around 400 late term abortions for medical reasons.

If the other 59600 abortions were done for personal reasons (of the parents), I don't think that's anyones business but those of the (would be) parents.
I don't think anyone makes this decision light-hearted, because if it's not for medical reasons, you know your baby would live if you didn't abort. Given that, I still think it's better to have the choice of having an abortion done by a professional than having to either do it illegally by someone who probably isn't even a doctor or giving birth and then giving the child away (which is a choice that is available right now too).

I think the reason why the doctor can talk the way he does, is because if he had any doubts about what he is doing he'd probably not be in this business, or have to cope with severe stress.

[SS107.9MHz]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

What?

The abortionist and his No. 1 foe

Discuss!

I have to say, it amazes me that someone can be so cavalier about late term abortions. The two sides will never agree, one side says it's choice, the other side says legalized murder. One thing's for sure, when an abortion occurs, a human life in production ceases to exist.

,,,wow.

In cases like that, I would tend to agree. But 60,000 cases of incest or malformed fetuses?

Just to adress the thread by Neal, which wasn't the usual pro/against abortion question...
I think the guy gains nothing in being so open chested about the matter, but I understand his reaction in a "those basterds killed my coleague and they won't get away with it, I won't let myself be pushed around" logic. It's a typical "run to arms" where neither group wants to back down and always try to surpass the other.

But I have to say that to me, placing a huge board promoting an abortion clinic comes really low in my "no-no's" when compared to killing a doctor just because one of his jobs his doing abortions.

[August]

One thing about the abortion debate that has always struck me is how both sides tend to accept abortions, even late term abortions, in the case of rape. We're not taking about a birth defects or health risk to the mother here, this is a perfectly formed child whose only flaw was being conceived in a loveless act. I just don't think that is something deserving of the death penalty.

[Shearwater]

Originally Posted by August

One thing about the abortion debate that has always struck me is how both sides tend to accept abortions, even late term abortions, in the case of rape. We're not taking about a birth defects or health risk to the mother here, this is a perfectly formed child whose only flaw was being conceived in a loveless act. I just don't think that is something deserving of the death penalty.

To call rape 'a loveless act' in my opinion is a blatant understatement (with all due respect).
I really can understand the women who do it. - Imagine: Who would like to be phyiscally reminded of something for 9 entire months that willl probably leave her mentally traumatized for the rest of her life?
Even if the baby is healthy and all, I would rate the mother's well-being higher than the development of a potential person. It's not something like the "death penalty" for the child, it's the mother's attempt to regain at least some control over her life that was destroyed by the act of rape.

[August]

Originally Posted by Shearwater

To call rape 'a loveless act' in my opinion is a blatant understatement.
I really can understand the women who do it. - Imagine: would you like to be phyiscally reminded of something for 9 entire months that willl probably leave you mentally traumatized for the rest of your life?
Even if the baby is healthy and all, I would rate the mother's well-being higher than the development of a potential person. It's not something like the "death penalty" for the child, it's the mother's attempt to regain at least some control over her life that was destroyed by the act of rape.

I understand what you are saying but three things should be noted:

First the child is totally blameless in this, yet it's the one that pays with it's life to make someonefeel better, maybe?

Second, since we're talking about late term abortions the mother has already survived being reminded of it for many months already. I'd say the damage is already done.

Lastly abortion is certainly no cure all. As we have read in the links posted earlier the guilt lasts far after the stitches are healed.

[AVGWarhawk]

IMO, the main reason why many people can go along with abortion as contraception, is because it's all done without seeing the fetus. It's done behind a curtain. It's like eating a hamburger, as long as most people don't have to see the cow get it in the neck, they're cool.

Interesting analogy. From the article link I posted on page one, women lose any type of feeling for the decision. It becomes as easy as doing the grocery shopping for some.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

One thing about the abortion debate that has always struck me is how both sides tend to accept abortions, even late term abortions, in the case of rape. We're not taking about a birth defects or health risk to the mother here, this is a perfectly formed child whose only flaw was being conceived in a loveless act. I just don't think that is something deserving of the death penalty.

I think what we are talking about is a child that is a constant reminder to the woman who was raped and conceived the child as a result. Rape is more than a loveless act, it is violent and brutal to the woman. This to me is considered a special case but the abortion needs to happen in the early stages. I do agree with you that the child is blameless. But, what is a woman to do that was involved in gang rape or rape at all?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I think what we are talking about is a child that is a constant reminder to the woman who was raped and conceived the child as a result. Rape is more than a loveless act, it is violent and brutal to the woman. This to me is considered a special case but the abortion needs to happen in the early stages. I do agree with you that the child is blameless. But, what is a woman to do that was involved in gang rape or rape at all?

But that goes directly against the stated concept that all life is sacred. If someone is truly against abortion the circumstances should not matter.

But this is a purely theoretical argument. It is my belief that there is only one opinion that matters - the mother's. She has to carry the child, and no one else. Yes, it would be nice if it were discussed with the father, and there is always the reverse argument that if she chooses to have the child he will be forced to help pay for it's upbringing. But that is a separate subject, and actually has little to do with the topic at hand.

I am very much against abortion, but the only option is to make it illegal again, and the only justifiable grounds for that is that it's murder. Is it? By what legal grounds? Who decides? Certainly not me, or any other man. I can only see the mother making that choice.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But that goes directly against the stated concept that all life is sacred. If someone is truly against abortion the circumstances should not matter.

But this is a purely theoretical argument. It is my belief that there is only one opinion that matters - the mother's. She has to carry the child, and no one else. Yes, it would be nice if it were discussed with the father, and there is always the reverse argument that if she chooses to have the child he will be forced to help pay for it's upbringing. But that is a separate subject, and actually has little to do with the topic at hand.

I am very much against abortion, but the only option is to make it illegal again, and the only justifiable grounds for that is that it's murder. Is it? By what legal grounds? Who decides? Certainly not me, or any other man. I can only see the mother making that choice.

Ultimately what you have said here Steve is what has baffled everyone for decades. The arguments will continue long after you an I are pushing up daisies. There will never be a full answer to the abortion question sir.

[August]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I think what we are talking about is a child that is a constant reminder to the woman who was raped and conceived the child as a result. Rape is more than a loveless act, it is violent and brutal to the woman. This to me is considered a special case but the abortion needs to happen in the early stages. I do agree with you that the child is blameless. But, what is a woman to do that was involved in gang rape or rape at all?

Rape might be more than a loveless act but then again so is abortion.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

Rape might be more than a loveless act but then again so is abortion.

True! I agree with you August but it is such a fine line on most of the questions and answers. There is always the innocent one and that is the child. I have stated throughout the thread we will never get the final answer to the question in your or my lifetime. This question has had politicians dance and sing for 4 to 8 years. Obama is dancing and singing around the question right now.

Originally Posted by August

One thing about the abortion debate that has always struck me is how both sides tend to accept abortions, even late term abortions, in the case of rape. We're not taking about a birth defects or health risk to the mother here, this is a perfectly formed child whose only flaw was being conceived in a loveless act. I just don't think that is something deserving of the death penalty.

Is that a popular view in Massachusetts?

[AVGWarhawk]

This is an instance were abortion (if this young lady conceives) that I would agree 100% with the decision to abort.

Five suspects were in custody early Wednesday in northern California in the gang rape, robbery and beating of a 15-year-old girl outside her high school homecoming dance,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

I hope the bastards involved fry for this.