Greener Mail Initiative?

GoldenRivet · 10-21-09, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen

(Going from memory here)
As far as I remember there was an initiative awhile back to prevent the postal service from delivering the junk or at least make it possible to opt out of the junk mail stuff. The postal service argued that the loss of revenue would be substantial, and therefore it kept on doing it and wont stop it any time soon.

you are correct.

so what do you guys think would be a solution to the whole Postal Service cost effectiveness solution?

I think that they should get into the internet business.

They hook you up with internet service, and it costs 0$ per month

you get unlimited, unrestricted browsing time, and each e mail you send costs you $0.30. every e mail you receive from a non USPS.com e mail domain will cost you $0.05

at the end of the monthly billing cycle you pay the total of all sent and received e mails at the above mentioned rates.

i think the individual costs under that plan would be reasonable

CaptainHaplo · 10-21-09, 07:13 PM

Would we name it the US Internet service?

What about people in the boonies who don't have access to internet? Oh wait, net neutrality will fix that.

Honestly, if they can't survive using their current business model, then they need to revamp the model. But not just FORCE all emails through a GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AGENCY - just so they can charge for it and exist.

Times change, and businesses fail. Is the USPS too big to fail now too? Apparently. Who cares if they offer a service that is no longer vital to the needs of the people, lets find ways to make them halfway solvent, regardless of the intrusion into people's lives.

And using your model, how would businesses fair? From small, under 10 people to companies employing thousands, what would their costs be? It would be prohibitive to say the least.

5 cents an email.... I get 100 emails a day. 1000 workers.
1000x100 = 100,000
100,000 x 5 cents = 500,000 cents - or $5000 dollars a day.

$5000.00 x 350 days = $!,750,000

One and three quarter MILLION dollars added to the cost of running a 1000 person business. As if there were not enough costs involved already. And thats just on what is RECIEVED - not what is sent! At 30 cents an email going out - your talking over 10 Million for that!

All so a service that can't compete can stay around.

Sorry GoldenRivet, but that idea is just... wrong!

CaptainHaplo · 10-21-09, 07:29 PM

Never one to just say no - how is this for a solution?

The postal service loses money due to its need to transport weighty objects long distances. But the need of the consumer to get that "hard copy" is not nearly what was today.

So the mail needs to change the way it works. 1 day a week delivery of hard copy, true "mail". Keep its specialized delivery service (for large packages) if it is viable, else spin it off to UPS or FedEx or another private entity.

This will result in a drastic downsizing, but also decrease the crap you get in your mailbox. Saves trees, saves tax money. Not the greatest for jobs, though some would remain. The key here is it could then offer an electronic mail delivery service.

A company wants to send you a bill, they send the bill, electronically and encrypted, to you through the electronic USPS. The USPS accepts the mail, insures its delivery (via you having to certify its delivery electronically), and it would only cost a penny. That choice of going electronic - which granted not everyone will have, will save the consumer money (since the costs are passed on to you) and will save the biller money. Sure they could just email it to you, but then they can't show you got it. Return reciept? Pfft, my kid opened my email and clicked stuff, I never saw it. But logging into the USPS e-delivery service? No deniabilty there.

Course, they would need alot of technically skilled people to pull that off. Probably have to hire alot of them, or maybe retrain the sorting machine folks.... Tech jobs pay pretty well...

No - this isn't a perfect plan, it would need alot of tweaking, because it could be grown into the USPS certifying the security of epayment data, etc.

Properly done, the USPS itself would never be able to see the raw data, since it SHOULD be encrypted, PGP style. That protects everyone. Creates skilled jobs. Saves people money.

Shearwater · 10-21-09, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

A company wants to send you a bill, they send the bill, electronically and encrypted, to you through the electronic USPS. The USPS accepts the mail, insures its delivery (via you having to certify its delivery electronically), and it would only cost a penny. That choice of going electronic - which granted not everyone will have, will save the consumer money (since the costs are passed on to you) and will save the biller money. Sure they could just email it to you, but then they can't show you got it. Return reciept? Pfft, my kid opened my email and clicked stuff, I never saw it. But logging into the USPS e-delivery service? No deniabilty there.

IIRC, that's what Deutsche Post is working on right at the moment, though it's still in its initial phase. Called an e-Brief (or "e-letter"). I don't know how it works exactly, but in any case it's some form of encrypted email that isn't free of charge, but has all the advantages you've mentioned above. If you wish, you can send it through email, and the receiver gets a printed letter.

GoldenRivet · 10-21-09, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Sorry GoldenRivet, but that idea is just...
wrong!

I never said it was the end all be all solution to the problem.

i do feel that the USPS serves a critical function.

the problem here is that the internet has come along, and technology has come along and these forces have changed everything about the way our society functions.

unfortunately a lot of businesses... especially those federal businesses... are playing catch up, or they are wandering around lost in a world which is altogether unfamiliar to the way they have existed since the dawn of this nation.

EDIT:

i wonder how much of a part the companies like UPS and FedEx are playing into the downfall of the USPS.

The federal government awarded these rights and privilages to UPS and FEDEX, they mostly deliver boxed goods.

Seems that the USPS would be doing substantially better business wise if FEDEX and UPS were no more... but now we have an issue of Government intrusion on private enterprise.

CaptainHaplo · 10-21-09, 08:15 PM

I didn't mean that personal mate. Just the numbers look horrible for business uses if its "mandatory email thu the USPS". Actually your plan was what opened up my thoughts on e-delivery.

GoldenRivet · 10-21-09, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

I didn't mean that personal mate.

Oh i know.

but this situation is getting out of hand.

you know my original post was made mostly in jest - however it has brought up a broader set of issues.

perhaps the postal service should downsize considerably?

perhaps upon their downsizing they should continue to deliver paper mailings.

but in addendum to the paper stuff they should diversify into other methods of delivery.

I do think that the postal service is important... but they need to adapt to modern times.

even if it means stamps have to cost $0.95 each.

but the fact that the USPS is delivering GARBAGE to my house (literally) just so they can continue to barely make ends meet is NOT a good thing

CaptainHaplo · 10-21-09, 10:26 PM

I agree they provide a useful service.

But we are a free market economy, provide what the customer needs at a decent rate, or get run out of business.

They do need to downsize tremendously - though getting any government entity to do so is like pulling teeth in the dark by yourself - with a screwdriver.

Yet a 1 day a week delivery, as well as "special deliveries" on whatever day for an additional cost, would drastically save money.

Diversifying their service to areas of the market that are untouched is only smart. You think mail, you think USPS. They are THE brand - so they should leverage that into the areas where they have lost revenue. It could be done, and would end up keeping them not only viable without ever growing government subsidies, but it would also help us develop and keep a highly skilled technical pool of people. As the world shrinks due to globalization, we need to have people skilled to facilitate our role there. Right now, IT jobs are like all the other types - not enough of them out there, and without the demand, you won't have people with the skills.

August · 10-22-09, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

every e mail you receive from a non USPS.com e mail domain will cost you $0.05

So we should pay a nickle every time some telemarketer sends us a spam email? I don't think that idea will fly...

SteamWake · 10-22-09, 09:24 AM

Ive never understood why or how mass mailing merchandising is actually profitable.

I mean that crap never even makes it inside my house let alone get 'sorted' or opened, it goes straight into the trash from the mailbox.

Yet it must be sucessful to some degree because they keep on sending it.

On the other hand there is an entire industry based on the practice which keeps some folks in jobs so...

August · 10-22-09, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Ive never understood why or how mass mailing merchandising is actually profitable.

Aren't advertising expenses deductible? That might be why...

Oberon · 10-22-09, 11:52 AM

The United Kingdom is currently operating a greener Postal Service...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8320971.stm

clive bradbury · 10-23-09, 09:28 AM

In the UK we do have a free system to help reduce junk mail. It is the MPS - Mail Preference Service. You register your address on-line, and those details are placed on a list of companies which use junk mail - they then stop sending it. Works very well, doesn't stop the lot, but probably about 80%.

10-21-09, 07:13 PM	#2
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Would we name it the US Internet service? What about people in the boonies who don't have access to internet? Oh wait, net neutrality will fix that. Honestly, if they can't survive using their current business model, then they need to revamp the model. But not just FORCE all emails through a GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AGENCY - just so they can charge for it and exist. Times change, and businesses fail. Is the USPS too big to fail now too? Apparently. Who cares if they offer a service that is no longer vital to the needs of the people, lets find ways to make them halfway solvent, regardless of the intrusion into people's lives. And using your model, how would businesses fair? From small, under 10 people to companies employing thousands, what would their costs be? It would be prohibitive to say the least. 5 cents an email.... I get 100 emails a day. 1000 workers. 1000x100 = 100,000 100,000 x 5 cents = 500,000 cents - or $5000 dollars a day. $5000.00 x 350 days = $!,750,000 One and three quarter MILLION dollars added to the cost of running a 1000 person business. As if there were not enough costs involved already. And thats just on what is RECIEVED - not what is sent! At 30 cents an email going out - your talking over 10 Million for that! All so a service that can't compete can stay around. Sorry GoldenRivet, but that idea is just... wrong! __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-21-09, 07:29 PM	#3
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Never one to just say no - how is this for a solution? The postal service loses money due to its need to transport weighty objects long distances. But the need of the consumer to get that "hard copy" is not nearly what was today. So the mail needs to change the way it works. 1 day a week delivery of hard copy, true "mail". Keep its specialized delivery service (for large packages) if it is viable, else spin it off to UPS or FedEx or another private entity. This will result in a drastic downsizing, but also decrease the crap you get in your mailbox. Saves trees, saves tax money. Not the greatest for jobs, though some would remain. The key here is it could then offer an electronic mail delivery service. A company wants to send you a bill, they send the bill, electronically and encrypted, to you through the electronic USPS. The USPS accepts the mail, insures its delivery (via you having to certify its delivery electronically), and it would only cost a penny. That choice of going electronic - which granted not everyone will have, will save the consumer money (since the costs are passed on to you) and will save the biller money. Sure they could just email it to you, but then they can't show you got it. Return reciept? Pfft, my kid opened my email and clicked stuff, I never saw it. But logging into the USPS e-delivery service? No deniabilty there. Course, they would need alot of technically skilled people to pull that off. Probably have to hire alot of them, or maybe retrain the sorting machine folks.... Tech jobs pay pretty well... No - this isn't a perfect plan, it would need alot of tweaking, because it could be grown into the USPS certifying the security of epayment data, etc. Properly done, the USPS itself would never be able to see the raw data, since it SHOULD be encrypted, PGP style. That protects everyone. Creates skilled jobs. Saves people money. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-21-09, 08:15 PM	#6
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I didn't mean that personal mate. Just the numbers look horrible for business uses if its "mandatory email thu the USPS". Actually your plan was what opened up my thoughts on e-delivery. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-21-09, 10:26 PM	#8
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I agree they provide a useful service. But we are a free market economy, provide what the customer needs at a decent rate, or get run out of business. They do need to downsize tremendously - though getting any government entity to do so is like pulling teeth in the dark by yourself - with a screwdriver. Yet a 1 day a week delivery, as well as "special deliveries" on whatever day for an additional cost, would drastically save money. Diversifying their service to areas of the market that are untouched is only smart. You think mail, you think USPS. They are THE brand - so they should leverage that into the areas where they have lost revenue. It could be done, and would end up keeping them not only viable without ever growing government subsidies, but it would also help us develop and keep a highly skilled technical pool of people. As the world shrinks due to globalization, we need to have people skilled to facilitate our role there. Right now, IT jobs are like all the other types - not enough of them out there, and without the demand, you won't have people with the skills. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-22-09, 09:24 AM	#10
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ive never understood why or how mass mailing merchandising is actually profitable. I mean that crap never even makes it inside my house let alone get 'sorted' or opened, it goes straight into the trash from the mailbox. Yet it must be sucessful to some degree because they keep on sending it. On the other hand there is an entire industry based on the practice which keeps some folks in jobs so... __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

10-22-09, 11:52 AM	#12
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	The United Kingdom is currently operating a greener Postal Service... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8320971.stm

10-23-09, 09:28 AM	#13
clive bradbury Captain Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: stoke-on-trent, UK Posts: 492 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	In the UK we do have a free system to help reduce junk mail. It is the MPS - Mail Preference Service. You register your address on-line, and those details are placed on a list of companies which use junk mail - they then stop sending it. Works very well, doesn't stop the lot, but probably about 80%.