If they cant do AI wolfpacks...

THE_MASK · 10-12-09, 04:47 PM

Asking to have wofpacks is easy . Getting it to work in game would be a game within a game , very hard and time consuming i would imagine . But this is how i would do it . As in uboat add on , instead of the scout plane there would be an invisible scout sub . The scout sub continuously scouts and in the same time compression as yourself . If on its random scouting of the entire grids it happens to detect a ship or convoy that is within a certain random distance from your sub then it will generate a location and ask for assistance . This would only happen in the historic time frame , months, years they had wofpacks . This is a start anyway and i would expect at least this in SH5 . See then you could go to the mission editor and script it or keep it random like you do with other vessels in the campaign . Its all about modding and being able to mod it .

JU_88 · 10-13-09, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

Asking to have wofpacks is easy . Getting it to work in game would be a game within a game , very hard and time consuming i would imagine . But this is how i would do it . As in uboat add on , instead of the scout plane there would be an invisible scout sub . The scout sub continuously scouts and in the same time compression as yourself . If on its random scouting of the entire grids it happens to detect a ship or convoy that is within a certain random distance from your sub then it will generate a location and ask for assistance . This would only happen in the historic time frame , months, years they had wofpacks . This is a start anyway and i would expect at least this in SH5 . See then you could go to the mission editor and script it or keep it random like you do with other vessels in the campaign . Its all about modding and being able to mod it .

hmm fine - but actual AI subs also need to fit in to the equasion somehow,
Would be nice to appoach a convoy to see that some ships are already damaged - or the Escorts are off blasting another Sub.
Sick and tired of having ALL escorts zero in on me - the second my first torpedo hits.
Im just saying that having wolf packs purley as an invisible entinity doesnt cut the mustard -for me anyway.

The General · 10-13-09, 02:07 PM

What about integrating multiplayer into career mode somehow? Let's say every time you click the 'Summon other u-boat captains' icon in the radio room, a dialogue window opens with a chat forum so you can request help from other captains online worldwide and they help you take on a convoy , taskforce or whatever? Come on, it's not the craziest idea in the world?!

IanC · 10-13-09, 03:49 PM

Just apply whatever wolfpack system was used for Aces of the Deep. That's good enough for me!

GoldenRivet · 10-14-09, 12:55 AM

I got to thinking. You wouldn't have to have another campaign layer for AI boats.

airplanes have airbases as spawn points... the AI BDU detects whether or not you are within range of one of these air bases, and it decides based on a % chance whether or not to send air units to assist you.

why not just have a bunch of hidden AI U-boat spawn points?

you could scatter perhaps 20 or 30 AI U-boat spawn points throughout the North Atlantic, and perhaps 4 or 5 in the south Atlantic and so on.

The spawn radius of each of these AI U-boat spawn points would be something like 150nm or 200nm or something of the sort.

if you are within this spawn radius and you send in a contact report, the AI BDU would then decide based on a % chance how many AI U-boats would theoretically be occupying that radius... then it would decide how many would be responding to your contact report.

The AI U-boats initialized for response to your contact report would then spawn, and set maximum speed toward an intercept point which would be based on the speed and course provided by you in your contact report.

BDU would then provide periodic updates, "U-42 and U-96 have been redirected to assist you, they expect contact in 10 hours."

BDU would then update you on the progress of their arrival on attack stations "U-42 and U-96 have provided tactical updates and will arrive to assist in attack in 5 hours."

and finally "All boats are assuming attack positions, begin attack at 0600 GMT"

to prevent AI U-boats persuing convoys to the ends of the earth and/or attacking until they are killed... i think that a limitation should be placed on AI U-Boats that they will break off their attack and leave the area when one of three conditions are met

1. they have fired 5 torpedoes.

2. they have expended half of their battery life.

3. they have suffered some form of damage.

Finally, for increased immersion, when a contact report is received by the player (as is so often the case) BdU should direct the player to break off of his current duties and respond to the contact report, when the player arrives he may or may not see other u-boats preparing to attack... however there should come a message from BDU "Boats are assuming attack positions, begin attack at 1800 GMT"

this way it is not always the player initiating the wolf pack tactic.

the pro of doing this

* it is more historically accurate as to real life u-boat operations and BDU micromanagement... hard core players would greatly appreciate the added realism

the con of doing this

* many players like the idea of cruising around having the world to themselves... they might not enjoy being micromanaged.

there should be a realism option to allow for the inclusion of AI wolfpacks... in other words if the player selects "No AI U-boats" it will just disable the U-boat spawn points.

in summation

1. Scatter AI U-Boat spawn points around the map

2. When the player sends a contact report for a convoy (not a single ship) the AI BDU engine will determine whether or not AI U-boat spawn criteria are met

3. if AI U-boat spawn criteria are met... x number of U-boats will be directed to join you in your attack and will head toward an intercept point at max speed.

4. the player will have to hold off on his attack and provide updates so that the "intercept point" of the AI U-boats can be further updated

5. so as to prevent the player from Time skipping through his own attack, BDU will provide updates as to the position of incoming u-boats at 24 hour, 12 hour, 10 hour, 5 hour, 3 2 and 1 hour intervals.

6. finally, when all boats are within visual distance of the convoy, BDU will direct the attack to commence at some later time... this gives the player a time frame to get established into position and prepare to fire his torpedoes - and prevents the AI from attacking before the player is ready... this keeps all hell from breaking lose before you are even in position to attack.

7. When an AI boat has 1. fired 5 torpedoes, 2. used up half of their battery or 3. suffered damage... the AI u-boat will break contact and head it's own separate random direction.

THE_MASK · 10-14-09, 01:37 AM

Or just do it all thru the mission editor .

GoldenRivet · 10-14-09, 02:02 AM

doing it in the mission editor is ok for single missions... but there is no dynamic element involved - and most people would want wolfpacks in the career mode.

you cant just put AI boats out in the ocean and expect wolfpacks to form... very specific programing routines have to be followed for the AI to function properly.

10-12-09, 04:47 PM	#1
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	Asking to have wofpacks is easy . Getting it to work in game would be a game within a game , very hard and time consuming i would imagine . But this is how i would do it . As in uboat add on , instead of the scout plane there would be an invisible scout sub . The scout sub continuously scouts and in the same time compression as yourself . If on its random scouting of the entire grids it happens to detect a ship or convoy that is within a certain random distance from your sub then it will generate a location and ask for assistance . This would only happen in the historic time frame , months, years they had wofpacks . This is a start anyway and i would expect at least this in SH5 . See then you could go to the mission editor and script it or keep it random like you do with other vessels in the campaign . Its all about modding and being able to mod it . Last edited by THE_MASK; 10-12-09 at 07:33 PM.

10-13-09, 02:07 PM	#3
The General The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mountain Ash, Wales, U.K. Posts: 1,548 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 3	What about integrating multiplayer into career mode somehow? Let's say every time you click the 'Summon other u-boat captains' icon in the radio room, a dialogue window opens with a chat forum so you can request help from other captains online worldwide and they help you take on a convoy , taskforce or whatever? Come on, it's not the craziest idea in the world?! __________________ *THE GENERAL* Last edited by The General; 10-13-09 at 02:42 PM.

10-14-09, 12:55 AM	#5
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	I got to thinking. You wouldn't have to have another campaign layer for AI boats. airplanes have airbases as spawn points... the AI BDU detects whether or not you are within range of one of these air bases, and it decides based on a % chance whether or not to send air units to assist you. why not just have a bunch of hidden AI U-boat spawn points? you could scatter perhaps 20 or 30 AI U-boat spawn points throughout the North Atlantic, and perhaps 4 or 5 in the south Atlantic and so on. The spawn radius of each of these AI U-boat spawn points would be something like 150nm or 200nm or something of the sort. if you are within this spawn radius and you send in a contact report, the AI BDU would then decide based on a % chance how many AI U-boats would theoretically be occupying that radius... then it would decide how many would be responding to your contact report. The AI U-boats initialized for response to your contact report would then spawn, and set maximum speed toward an intercept point which would be based on the speed and course provided by you in your contact report. BDU would then provide periodic updates, "U-42 and U-96 have been redirected to assist you, they expect contact in 10 hours." BDU would then update you on the progress of their arrival on attack stations "U-42 and U-96 have provided tactical updates and will arrive to assist in attack in 5 hours." and finally "All boats are assuming attack positions, begin attack at 0600 GMT" to prevent AI U-boats persuing convoys to the ends of the earth and/or attacking until they are killed... i think that a limitation should be placed on AI U-Boats that they will break off their attack and leave the area when one of three conditions are met 1. they have fired 5 torpedoes. 2. they have expended half of their battery life. 3. they have suffered some form of damage. Finally, for increased immersion, when a contact report is received by the player (as is so often the case) BdU should direct the player to break off of his current duties and respond to the contact report, when the player arrives he may or may not see other u-boats preparing to attack... however there should come a message from BDU "Boats are assuming attack positions, begin attack at 1800 GMT" this way it is not always the player initiating the wolf pack tactic. the pro of doing this * it is more historically accurate as to real life u-boat operations and BDU micromanagement... hard core players would greatly appreciate the added realism the con of doing this * many players like the idea of cruising around having the world to themselves... they might not enjoy being micromanaged. there should be a realism option to allow for the inclusion of AI wolfpacks... in other words if the player selects "No AI U-boats" it will just disable the U-boat spawn points. in summation 1. Scatter AI U-Boat spawn points around the map 2. When the player sends a contact report for a convoy (not a single ship) the AI BDU engine will determine whether or not AI U-boat spawn criteria are met 3. if AI U-boat spawn criteria are met... x number of U-boats will be directed to join you in your attack and will head toward an intercept point at max speed. 4. the player will have to hold off on his attack and provide updates so that the "intercept point" of the AI U-boats can be further updated 5. so as to prevent the player from Time skipping through his own attack, BDU will provide updates as to the position of incoming u-boats at 24 hour, 12 hour, 10 hour, 5 hour, 3 2 and 1 hour intervals. 6. finally, when all boats are within visual distance of the convoy, BDU will direct the attack to commence at some later time... this gives the player a time frame to get established into position and prepare to fire his torpedoes - and prevents the AI from attacking before the player is ready... this keeps all hell from breaking lose before you are even in position to attack. 7. When an AI boat has 1. fired 5 torpedoes, 2. used up half of their battery or 3. suffered damage... the AI u-boat will break contact and head it's own separate random direction. __________________

10-14-09, 02:02 AM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	doing it in the mission editor is ok for single missions... but there is no dynamic element involved - and most people would want wolfpacks in the career mode. you cant just put AI boats out in the ocean and expect wolfpacks to form... very specific programing routines have to be followed for the AI to function properly. __________________

10-13-09, 03:49 PM	#4
IanC Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Running silent and deep Posts: 902 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Just apply whatever wolfpack system was used for Aces of the Deep. That's good enough for me!

10-14-09, 01:37 AM	#6
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	Or just do it all thru the mission editor .