The Drone Wars

TarJak · 10-11-09, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Actually - having the "crew" back in the US is a positive in more ways than one. Of course - the first is the safety issue. Saving the lives of the soldiers.

But the second benefit is that these soldiers are not in theatre. Thus they can go home to their families, they have deep resources for any type of counselling their jobs may cause them to seek.

Lastly - and an often overlooked positive - is that keeping them out of a hot zone reduces stress and the "vengeance" syndrome. A strike is carried out by someone not in the zone, not under constant, 24/7 combat pressure. That alone makes the decisions have an additional safety factor. A officer on the ground, having just gotten shot at, might choose to risk civilian casualties to take out a suspected bad guy. A guy sitting in a building safe and sound with all the intel and a line to the big dogs handy can often make a "safer" decision.

Neither will be right 100% of the time - but taking the "hot" stress out of the decision means less civilian casualties.

The big kicker is that they don't get theatre pay either.

CaptainHaplo · 10-11-09, 11:21 PM

I can see not paying them the Theatre offset.

Whats more in question - do they get the combat adjustment?

I would suspect not.

There should be SOME offset since it truly is more than a "video game training session".

MothBalls · 10-12-09, 12:29 AM

So I wonder how long before someone decides a computer can fly the drones better than a human can. Eventually both sides will have computerized weapons, and soldiers and pilots will be removed from the battlefield.

This scenario reminds me of an old Star Trek Episode:

A Taste of Armageddon
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708414/plotsummary

Quote:

On a mission to establish diplomatic relations, Kirk and Spock beam down to the planet to learn that its inhabitants have been at war with a neighboring planet for over 500 years. They can find no damage and no evidence of destruction. They soon learn that the war is essentially a war game where each planet attacks the other in a computer simulation with the victims voluntarily surrendering themselves for execution after the fact.

You can watch the episode on veoh:
http://www.veoh.com/collection/CBS-S...438381qXfQZhcF

SteamWake · 10-12-09, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothBalls

So I wonder how long before someone decides a computer can fly the drones better than a human can. Eventually both sides will have computerized weapons, and soldiers and pilots will be removed from the battlefield.

This scenario reminds me of an old Star Trek Episode:

A Taste of Armageddon
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708414/plotsummary

You can watch the episode on veoh:
http://www.veoh.com/collection/CBS-S...438381qXfQZhcF

I remember that one. The kicker was no one knew why the war had started in the first place.

SteamWake · 10-26-09, 01:09 PM

Some more thoughts on the Drone Wars

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox News

As the Obama administration considers relying more heavily on remote-controlled drones to attack militants along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, there are increasing concerns that the military will risk losing the hearts and minds of civilians along the way.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...-hearts-minds/

CNYBubblehead · 10-26-09, 10:10 PM

This is actually quite a hot-button topic here in my neck of the woods, because our local National Guard fighter wing is transitioning from F-16s to the MQ-9 Reaper. While there's the one side of the coin that it could keep individuals from developing combat-induced stress (I personally hope they still have plenty of mental-health services available to them, 'cuz in my book, they're still combat vets!), I can also see the possibility that it could almost desensitize someone, too. I guess it's a fine line to walk. Whatever their role in the conflict, I'm just glad they're serving.

When all is said and done, though, I think the move to the Reaper is a fantastic thing for the wing, even though I'll miss what I lovingly call my Saturday morning "wake-up call"...hearing the -16s zip over my house at 8:30 a.m. when the pilots are training.

Zachstar · 10-27-09, 12:22 AM

The drones have saved more lives then we will ever know. Do you remember what the losses were like in Iraq until Drones were brought in in more numbers?

Drones are winning the war in Afghanistan no its not the quickest thing ever and there are serious losses. But the enemy now fears not being able to do the attack now. They never feared perishing in the attack but the fear of not doing their deed for their god is a pretty good bit of discouragement.

BTW the process of an attack is not just press a button and go. Approaval has to be given for every shot. Often news reports talk of how drones will sometimes hover for hours waiting for the targets to group together and gathering valuable intel.

Ilpalazzo · 10-27-09, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothBalls

This scenario reminds me of an old Star Trek Episode:

A Taste of Armageddon
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708414/plotsummary
Quote:
On a mission to establish diplomatic relations, Kirk and Spock beam down to the planet to learn that its inhabitants have been at war with a neighboring planet for over 500 years. They can find no damage and no evidence of destruction. They soon learn that the war is essentially a war game where each planet attacks the other in a computer simulation with the victims voluntarily surrendering themselves for execution after the fact.
You can watch the episode on veoh:
http://www.veoh.com/collection/CBS-S...438381qXfQZhcF

I saw that one. That was a great episode. Imagine how lame that would be in real life. Awww shooot. They got us. Ok they estimate that we lost about a million that time. Line up and step into the incinerator.

whoops bad quote. Thanks

SteamWake · 10-27-09, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilpalazzo

I saw that one. That was a great episode. Imagine how lame that would be in real life. Awww shooot. They got us. Ok they estimate that we lost about a million that time. Line up and step into the incinerator.

I think you got your quotes mixed up there.

I think that episode's purpose was to show how mankind can become numb to war.

SteamWake · 10-28-09, 09:38 AM

The UN with their 'unbiased' point of view has weighed in on the topic.

Quote:

UNITED NATIONS (AFP) – US drone strikes against suspected terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan could be breaking international laws against summary executions, the UN's top investigator of such crimes said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091028...smissilerights

10-11-09, 11:21 PM	#2
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I can see not paying them the Theatre offset. Whats more in question - do they get the combat adjustment? I would suspect not. There should be SOME offset since it truly is more than a "video game training session". __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-27-09, 12:22 AM	#7
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	The drones have saved more lives then we will ever know. Do you remember what the losses were like in Iraq until Drones were brought in in more numbers? Drones are winning the war in Afghanistan no its not the quickest thing ever and there are serious losses. But the enemy now fears not being able to do the attack now. They never feared perishing in the attack but the fear of not doing their deed for their god is a pretty good bit of discouragement. BTW the process of an attack is not just press a button and go. Approaval has to be given for every shot. Often news reports talk of how drones will sometimes hover for hours waiting for the targets to group together and gathering valuable intel. __________________

10-26-09, 10:10 PM	#6
CNYBubblehead Watch Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 15 Downloads: 73 Uploads: 0	This is actually quite a hot-button topic here in my neck of the woods, because our local National Guard fighter wing is transitioning from F-16s to the MQ-9 Reaper. While there's the one side of the coin that it could keep individuals from developing combat-induced stress (I personally hope they still have plenty of mental-health services available to them, 'cuz in my book, they're still combat vets!), I can also see the possibility that it could almost desensitize someone, too. I guess it's a fine line to walk. Whatever their role in the conflict, I'm just glad they're serving. When all is said and done, though, I think the move to the Reaper is a fantastic thing for the wing, even though I'll miss what I lovingly call my Saturday morning "wake-up call"...hearing the -16s zip over my house at 8:30 a.m. when the pilots are training.