Destroyer hooks

a year or two ago we had a long discussion about this (i think it was in sh4 mods forum) and with all the data found, it was clear that sub hooks were made and used (i cant remember if both sides tried it or not) but after several types were tried they found it was more likely the destroyer would in most cases recieve more damage than the sub and if it snagged the bottom it was almost a certainty that the DD would be sunk or have its stern severely damaged.

the only time they found records of use of the hooks were almost exclusively used in harbors and protected ports. the reason the idea came up was because DD would often damage themselves in shallow water depthcharging so a better safer way was wanted to damage subs in shallow water.

the testing they did found that dragging just the cables would often work better than using them with the hooks because the cables would often cut into sub hulls enough to cause more flooding or foul the subs rudder or propellers, but it did this without severely damaging the DD at the same time.

dragging just the cables was looked at as a better solution than using hooks but in the end the whole idea of dragging anything was decided to be less effective and more dangerous then just have DD go faster when dropping depth charges so they could avoid the shock wave.

now this thread was like 2 years ago and i have no links or data to back all this up so if you want to say im wrong or argue the point then just ignore what i've said on the subject but the guys in the discussion had facts and links to back up what they were saying and knew what they were talking about.

[tater]

IT's not like the cable would snag and harm either. The whole idea is that when it hit, the escort hears it, and can prosecute the attack.

[FIREWALL]

If harbors then were as polluted as they are now the, Stink alone would have scared a sub outta there.

[NoLine]

This reminds me off this story.

Noline

[Jimbuna]

I seem to recall the Japanese tried it on occasion but have never heard of the allies following suit

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Letum

I think you might be confusing mass and weight.

Possibly. It wouldn't be the first time.

When any boat is not sinking or rising it's weight is zero because the
mass of displaced water is equal to the mass of the boat.

So if a diver came upon the submerged sub, he would be able to push it as if it wasn't there? Or if a fisherman snagged it he could just reel it in? That doesn't sound right to me. The thing still has the same mass, and any attempt to hook it is going to meet with that many tons of resistance.

[Schultz]

I one of the hooks catches some holes of the hull of the sub it would just rip it apart, how it happend in the movie

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So if a diver came upon the submerged sub, he would be able to push it as if it wasn't there? Or if a fisherman snagged it he could just reel it in? That doesn't sound right to me. The thing still has the same mass, and any attempt to hook it is going to meet with that many tons of resistance.

It's not the weight that would stop him, but the momentum and drag that
would make is difficult to move the sub fast. However, the diver would
theoretically be able to get the sub moving with virtually no effort, just very
slowly at first because of the momentum/inertia and then not reach a high
top speed because of the drag.
The weight of the sub would not be an issue as it has no weight in the
water at neutral buoyancy. Inertia and drag would be the big issues.

Originally Posted by tater

IT's not like the cable would snag and harm either. The whole idea is that when it hit, the escort hears it, and can prosecute the attack.

actually tater that was exacly what happened, they had to pull them faster than a trawler does so the hooks would hook into the hull and not slide off.

they couldnt use depth charges which was rthe reason for the hooks not as a detection method but they were meant as an offensive weapon of their own.

DD would often go too fast by using the same running attack tactics as if they were depth charging so when it snagged something then something was ripped off, either the subs hull or the DD rear deck was damaged. the winches were literally ripped off the decks along with everything it was attatched to and all the rigging for them and it often messed up the decks to the point repairs couldnt be avoided. in one case the DD snagged the rockbed and it was badly damaged.

if DD went too slow then subs could easily move out of the way by going to flank since they were noisy and im sure they could hear where the hooks were dragging. another drawback was the rear racks were removed so you lose those as weapons and trawlers didnt have enough mass to do the job so they werent a good choice to use the sub hooks.

its not like dropping a trawl over the back end and tying it to a moring cleat.

[othr]

Imagine the submarine as a very big paddle. VERY big paddle, now imagine the said diver try and paddle with it.

[Sledgehammer427]

I don't they would try to "catch" the sub.

IIRC the japanese would "Hook" a sub and let go of it, buoy attached. that way you can watch exactly where this sub is going, and there was even some oddball way to tether a pole (with buoy) to it and guess within a few feet how deep the sub was.

[Hartmann]

I´s better use a giant net with some explosive devices attached to it

[Jimbuna]

Now we know where they got the idea to track jaws from

[The Bandit]

I will have to look up the incident specifically but as I recall some of our RCN guys in WWII did something kind of similar. They were low on DCs and they had a Uboat pinned so they dragged a DC on a chain with some kind of contact detonator if I recall correct. As far as I remember it worked and after detonation they had debris coming up to the surface. I will have to go through my books to find the exact incident.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

I will have to look up the incident specifically but as I recall some of our RCN guys in WWII did something kind of similar. They were low on DCs and they had a Uboat pinned so they dragged a DC on a chain with some kind of contact detonator if I recall correct. As far as I remember it worked and after detonation they had debris coming up to the surface. I will have to go through my books to find the exact incident.

That sounds very interesting.....hope you find the reference