In RL any chance for a Kilo skipper to survive after attacking a Chinese task force?

[mikka]

Enemy losses:
Yuting class landing ship: 130 crew, 250 troops
Luda class destroyer: 280 crew
Oiler: 400 crew?

Friendly losses:
Kilo: 50 crew

I think your widow is getting a fat medal.

[goldorak]

Well if we go by real life events, the British taskforce during the falklands war had an awefull time trying to acquire and sink a pesky argentine diesel eletric submarine (that if it weren't for defective torpedo or defective settings would have damaged or sunk one of the british carriers).
The British taskforce went on full ASW and dropped tens of torpedoes and never could get a fix on the sub. So I wouldn't really dismiss the lethality and survivability of a diesel sub against surface ships. And this was in the early eighties. Consider what a modern AIP diesel eletric sub can do, and you understand why the Virgina nuclear subs were developped.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by mikka

Oiler: 400 crew?

More like <90. Tankers and merchant ships have much lower crew requirments than a warship of simailer tonnage. Basic reason is that tonnage used by cargo dosn't require looking after like tonnage taken up by weapons.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

It is detterent .. you wiped the task force right ? Task force for small sub is good trade-off. Also IRL the sub could get some support. It could cause panic and some damage, the aircraft could attack. Kilo can afford some vulnerability, since it works in home waters.

Originally Posted by mikka

Enemy losses:
Yuting class landing ship: 130 crew, 250 troops
Luda class destroyer: 280 crew
Oiler: 400 crew?

Friendly losses:
Kilo: 50 crew

I think your widow is getting a fat medal.

Well but most definitely the Kilo would not survive to celebrate its kill ...
I even doubt that in RL the Kilo could approach within 3nmi of the nearest active pinging escort without the escort starting to pick it up and closed in to investigate. So in RL it may not be possible at all to damage any ships as the Kilo weapons are not really that long reaching and the fact that there's no towed torpedo decoy implemented in DWX. But if the Kilo were equipped with improved sonar processing & tracking and at least the ability to carry heavy weight long range torpedoes in all its tubes that could really enhance the Kilo lethality and survivability. As for the current condition in DWX the Kilo is at most as lethal as a suicide bomber against a suspecting task force.

[Pillar]

What if he had made it into some quite shallow waters?

[Castout]

Shallow water would even further restrict the Kilo.

It may be passively more difficult to detect it in shallow waters but I think active sonar would not have any difficulty detecting a Kilo in shallow water

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Castout

Shallow water would even further restrict the Kilo.

It may be passively more difficult to detect it in shallow waters but I think active sonar would not have any difficulty detecting a Kilo in shallow water

Those are pretty big assumptions and if we go by real life reports (gotland sub sneaking up to an american carrier during friendly exercises) just demonstrate who wrong you are on this issue. The fact is diesel subs are pretty damn hard to detect, shallow or no shallow zone when using batteries. Wishing the Kilo were *S H I T* doesn't make it so in real life.

[OneShot]

The survivability of the Kilo depends on the scenario and the use of the sub. If it tries to interdict a convoy in the deep sea it will have some serious trouble (speed wise a conventional sub just isnt up to par) and if it gets close it will be detected if it has to travel fast, not to mention that it cant do that for long.

However if the Kilo could lie in wait and conduct a successful attack against one or more HVUs and then slink away in a noisy enviroment with hopefully lots of other contacts to distract the converging ASW units then it might survive.

As I said initially, it all depends on the enviroment/circumstances and that the Kilo is used to its strengths. Remember, its not a nuke and thus has to content with limited speed and range (among other things).

[Pillar]

Originally Posted by Castout

Shallow water would even further restrict the Kilo.

It may be passively more difficult to detect it in shallow waters but I think active sonar would not have any difficulty detecting a Kilo in shallow water

Now you have me very curious, I always believed that in shallow waters such as around coastal areas that active sonar would not function as well as in deeper water. (Because of the shallow bottom giving returns and being difficult to distinguish the Kilo from the bottom - I am granting the Kilo doesn't simply have a metal exposed hull, but has the anechoic tiling.)

This is incorrect?

[Dr.Sid]

It depends how the bottom will look. If it will be rocky, yes, any sub would be fine. If it was sand, or mud, it would not help so much, if at all.
And then you would send helos, which can get close fast, they have MAD too, and even laser scanners are tested these days.
You can only be save deep and far away. And that is what Kilo can't do easily.