Same old tired song

scrapser · 10-02-09, 02:19 PM

I think this is an interesting discussion. It's funny how improvements in sims and games have unexpected consequences. When I first played MicroProse's "Silent Service" on my Commodore 64 back in November 1985, I was floored by the realism. The game worked perfectly. All I remember wanting from it was high value targets like aircraft carriers and cruisers. But I was happy to run across a convoy of three oilers, a troop ship and a couple merchants protected by 3 escorts. I played this game for hours each day and for months on end.

Fast forward to today. The sub sims "look" incredibly photo realistic and there's lots of details and a plethora of targets (even in the case of the Atlantic, some high value targets). But the games are never perfect, full of bugs, and something has been lost that was there in the old days. I think what was lost is your imagination.

In the old days, we instinctively "filled in the blanks" with our imagination to make it seem real. But the more built in "realism" that's included, the less your imagination is called upon. If the added realism cannot replace your imagination apples for apples, then the enhancement has failed. It's great to find yourself in a raging storm at sea but if the boat is riding the waves like it's nailed to the sea floor...something is amiss.

I think this needs to be the benchmark of for what enhancements should be included in new sims.

Arclight · 10-03-09, 02:49 AM

I think a problem is always the complexity of a game's visuals. To compete, it has to look good, but making it look good takes up a large portion of development time. Eventually they run out of time and money, and games are released looking good but technically/mechanically handicapped, not the other way around. Seems it's clear where the focus is for devs (ie. the higher-ups).

sav112 · 10-03-09, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrapser

Fast forward to today. The sub sims "look" incredibly photo realistic and there's lots of details and a plethora of targets
In the old days, we instinctively "filled in the blanks" with our imagination to make it seem real. But the more built in "realism" that's included, the less your imagination is called upon.

Me and my best friend played the original Elite that was only lines and black and white on the BBC Model B. I always think it was because at the time we were kids, this ws not a game, we were in space fighting our way from planet to planet, we used to hotseat the game for hours. Played SS as well.

As for bugs sure there was bugs probably, but we did not have forums to bring it to our attention and they were Basic as we were not talking GB we were talking K.

I’m not a Console fan, don’t own one but spent a while playing with my mates seven year old playing COD4 and it blew me away the way it looked on his new Xbox 360. if we dragged the old BBC out and got elite up he’d crack up. Was it better to use our imagination probably but god are they looking great these days.

Armistead · 10-03-09, 08:00 AM

So they can start paying the moderators here.....

Sailor Steve · 10-03-09, 11:39 AM

To the original question: why buy (or even make) another German sim?

My answer is the same as I gave when some folks complained that SH4 was going to be a US fleet boat sim: If they're just making what is basically a glorified add-on, changing the action to a new field, then it's kind of silly to make it in the same field as it was before. On the other hand, if they're making a huge upgrade, the logical place to start is at the beginning of the war, and that was the u-boats. If it sells, hopefully there will be a version involving the fleet boats again. And maybe other navies' subs. And maybe surface escorts.

But first things first. Begin at the beginning. I know I will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrapser

I think what was lost is your imagination.

In the old days, we instinctively "filled in the blanks" with our imagination to make it seem real. But the more built in "realism" that's included, the less your imagination is called upon. If the added realism cannot replace your imagination apples for apples, then the enhancement has failed. It's great to find yourself in a raging storm at sea but if the boat is riding the waves like it's nailed to the sea floor...something is amiss.

I think this needs to be the benchmark of for what enhancements should be included in new sims.

Back when I played the original Silent Hunter, every time I picked up a downed airman I tried to imagine what life was like for him, suddenly stuck in an environment he never trained for. I would have imaginary conversations, explaining why the submariners did what they did and trying to give him an estimate of when we'd have him back in his own field.

Silly, but there it is.

@ sav112: WELCOME ABOARD!

Jimbuna · 10-03-09, 12:20 PM

Welcome aboard sav112

Elite certainly brings back a lot of fond memories from days long past

10-04-09, 01:36 PM

You're all light years ahead me. The only uboat game I played before SH3 was Submarine, a board game by Avalon Hill. Up until a few years ago, my only computer experience was picking up and delivering main frame systems. I was completely computer illiterate, and at least 20 years behind the times, until my friend built and gave me my first computer. He, and my kusine, were right. It's a whole new world out there.

My thanks go to them, and many of the people on this forum who have generiousely shared there knowledge and experience.

Mange tak! / Many thanks!

Jimbuna · 10-04-09, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snestorm

You're all light years ahead me. The only uboat game I played before SH3 was Submarine, a board game by Avalon Hill. Up until a few years ago, my only computer experience was picking up and delivering main frame systems. I was completely computer illiterate, and at least 20 years behind the times, until my friend built and gave me my first computer. He, and my kusine, were right. It's a whole new world out there.

My thanks go to them, and many of the people on this forum who have generiousely shared there knowledge and experience.

Mange tak! / Many thanks!

SINK EM ALL!!

IanC · 10-04-09, 05:44 PM

Why buy SH5? One reaon; U-BOAT LAUNCHED V2 ROCKETS!!!

GoldenRivet · 10-04-09, 05:46 PM

now that would be pretty cool.

though it would likely be a suicide mission

Akula4745 · 10-07-09, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC

Why buy SH5? One reaon; U-BOAT LAUNCHED V2 ROCKETS!!!

Now that sounds interesting!!!

10-02-09, 02:19 PM	#1
scrapser Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 530 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	I think this is an interesting discussion. It's funny how improvements in sims and games have unexpected consequences. When I first played MicroProse's "Silent Service" on my Commodore 64 back in November 1985, I was floored by the realism. The game worked perfectly. All I remember wanting from it was high value targets like aircraft carriers and cruisers. But I was happy to run across a convoy of three oilers, a troop ship and a couple merchants protected by 3 escorts. I played this game for hours each day and for months on end. Fast forward to today. The sub sims "look" incredibly photo realistic and there's lots of details and a plethora of targets (even in the case of the Atlantic, some high value targets). But the games are never perfect, full of bugs, and something has been lost that was there in the old days. I think what was lost is your imagination. In the old days, we instinctively "filled in the blanks" with our imagination to make it seem real. But the more built in "realism" that's included, the less your imagination is called upon. If the added realism cannot replace your imagination apples for apples, then the enhancement has failed. It's great to find yourself in a raging storm at sea but if the boat is riding the waves like it's nailed to the sea floor...something is amiss. I think this needs to be the benchmark of for what enhancements should be included in new sims. __________________ Gaming Computer Specs: CM Stacker 930 DFI LP UT X58-T3eH8 i7 920 CPU TR 120 Extreme HS (lapped) 6 GB OCZ Platinum 1600 (8x175 = 1400) BFG GTX 295 Silverstone DA1000W PSU Sony GDM-FW900 24" Wide Screen CRT WinXP Pro 32-bit

10-03-09, 02:49 AM	#2
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	I think a problem is always the complexity of a game's visuals. To compete, it has to look good, but making it look good takes up a large portion of development time. Eventually they run out of time and money, and games are released looking good but technically/mechanically handicapped, not the other way around. Seems it's clear where the focus is for devs (ie. the higher-ups). __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

10-03-09, 12:20 PM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,002 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome aboard sav112 Elite certainly brings back a lot of fond memories from days long past __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-04-09, 05:46 PM	#10
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	now that would be pretty cool. though it would likely be a suicide mission __________________

10-03-09, 08:00 AM	#4
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	So they can start paying the moderators here.....

10-04-09, 01:36 PM	#7
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	You're all light years ahead me. The only uboat game I played before SH3 was Submarine, a board game by Avalon Hill. Up until a few years ago, my only computer experience was picking up and delivering main frame systems. I was completely computer illiterate, and at least 20 years behind the times, until my friend built and gave me my first computer. He, and my kusine, were right. It's a whole new world out there. My thanks go to them, and many of the people on this forum who have generiousely shared there knowledge and experience. Mange tak! / Many thanks!

10-04-09, 05:44 PM	#9
IanC Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Running silent and deep Posts: 902 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Why buy SH5? One reaon; U-BOAT LAUNCHED V2 ROCKETS!!!