German voters are set to lose their fleece this Sunday

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

So why not be the alternative?

If no one is voting because they don't like the choice, then stand up and
be an alternative choice. If you are right in what you say about the will of
the country, then you will be successful.

Or alternatively, just complain about it here and do nothing.

If you can tell how to be an alternative system instead of being a non-alternative inside the system, I as well as many others may consider that.
but what you really want is that we just submit to the system itself, becoming just another party amongst several, following the system mechanisms and keeping it alive that way. But right that is the very problem. In the assessement of people like me the system itself is the problem, and thus cannot generate any solutions anymore. You cannot revolutionise the system from within. It is designed to prevent exactly that - because the lobbying parties constituting it wants to stay in control. But people like me do not want that. We want it being destroyed alltogether, because we have understood that it is not forming solutions for our survival in the future, but is helping in preventing that.

As a matter of fact in the past years we see a tendency for a raise in local "Bürgerinitiativen" (grasroot movements, civil rights movements) here in Germany, and soemtimes these have been powerful enough to break through the blockade of regional government, economy lobbies and parties. I have been engaged in one such movement myself, as I have explained in the past.

I do not want another party. I want civil disobedience on a scale that deadlocks the state and chases the established party system away, breaking up the destructive alliance between policy and economy. I want this on an international level, since a change in just one country means nothing, and cannot survive anyhow. The whole world order we have allowed to form up is against the future of man. That may sound pathetic, but unfortunately nothing less than this is true.

You think this view of things is capable of winning a majority? You underestimate the laziness and phlegmatism of the majority of people, then. I do not - and that is the reason why I am so extremely pessimistic about the future of man. even more so soince i know that already repeatedly societies of the past have killed themselves for these very same reasons.


The will of the country, you said. Well, obviously the will of the country still is such that it keeps the existing system alive, although the number of non-voters has reached a new record-high. This keeping-the-system is the problem. Obviously "will of the majority" and "being right" are not the same (one of the big mistakes in democratic thinking). Maybe that's why they say that numerical majorities are just numerical majorities - no statements about who is right and who is wrong. many socieites in the past have broken down with a majority of the population tolerating the processes leading to these falls for too long, until it was too late. I have just finished a second comprehensive reading ijn just some weeks about right this phenomenon, so don't try me, or I ripple-fire a whole list of failed socieites with stunning parallels to the modern present. Have these people of the past been right, just because they formed majorities "majorities"? Obviously not. Many saw their societies desintegrating in social rebellion, civil war and cannibalism, because the dissent led to rebellion to suicidal structures and processes just too late. Historic parallels to the events unfolding in the present count by the dozens, from the drama of the Pitcairn Island over the Anazasi and the Easter Islanders and the Maya to the Vikings . We could learn from these warning examples, if only we would want to. But, like you, the majority prefers to unknowingly repeat the very same mistakes many other people before us have fallen for in the past 1000 years, and probably also before these 1000 years.

And finally, many germans say that much of what the CDU does is more SPD-like than the SPD, and that the SPD has become greener than the Grteens, and some aspects of Green policies have become more conservative than the CDU. The last four years of grand coaltition did not help to keep the alternatives more ovbviously separate. there is no sense in having the choice if the difference between alternatives to chose from disappears.

It seems the CDU has won and will be able to form a coalition with the FDP. But they will face the same finacial misery like any other possible government, anf they will face the same prblems and will be hit by the same counterproductive variable. I tell you: the changes there will be, will be cosmetic only. the basic problems remain. The basic way of dealing with them will remain the same.

And in four years the number of non-voters will have grown again. Maybe hsitory will not remeber them as great geroes. But their decision not to vote will make sure they have become a little bit less guilty, than others - than that majority of yours, for example.