SH5 Updates from the SUBSIM meeting next week

[Rosencrantz]

Looks both promissing and scary to me...


-RC-

Same here.

[martes86]

For those of you that can read Spanish, here's some stuff for ya:
http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewt...p?f=58&t=34578

Not much, and not finished, but there's something to get amused for a while.


Still waiting for good spare time to transcribe my notes from the presentation (in Spanish first, of course) and uploading more pics/videos from the meet.

Cheers

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

As designed, when you attack a supply convoy it will affect the land battles, the routes of future convoys, and the enemy's ASW response.

Changing convoy routes following convoy engagements is a cool idea... and indirectly simulates the use of Enigma decrypts by the allies... VERY COOL IMHO!

...however, I hope that the "affect on land battles" can be turned off by the player. Something similar was done with Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator III years ago... and it creates a hokey historical 'revisionism.' Not cool AT ALL IMHO.

Sorry if this has already been covered here in this thread... I just don't have the time that I used to, to read everything.

I've got no problem with 'arcaders' being courted by the game... as long as it can truly be scaled to at least the simulation that SH3 became. It is the simulator-seekers and 'hardcore' players that ultimately carry the genre IMHO. Whatever is done, I think the devs shouldn't take any steps backwards there.

SH4 devs, if you are able to achieve the creation of wolfpacks in SH5... preferably on a limited basis within the dynamic campaign... without the players being able to directly communicate with other members of those wolfpacks... and AI torpedo firing AI subs... you will have scored a MAJOR victory with this community.

Please also consider adding 'proximity switches' to AI subs... allowing them to dive within a certain distance of the enemy... You will be heroes to everyone here. It can be done... we added 'proximity switches' to AI subs in GWX 3.0 testing which caused them to dive and later resurface. The only thing that we could not do... was to cause them to not be seen as "submerged" by surface vessels. Submerged AI subs were fired on as if they were surfaced.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by martes86

For those of you that can read Spanish, here's some stuff for ya:
http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewt...p?f=58&t=34578

Thank you Martes for the info (and thanks to Yahoo for the automatic translator though its translations are rather tricky to understand)

I could not be in Copenhagen myself, so maybe I didn't get things right. Anyway, judging by what I read, there is a whole lot of things still not implemented or in work, just 6 months before the release. I wonder if they'll be able to meet the March 2010 deadline. If not, I'd prefer Ubisoft holds the game until the devs have time to do their job right. Else, if they're forced to put the game on market without the planned features being fully functional, then we're heading to another SH3&4-style bugfest. I'd rather play a good game - say - in September 2010 than wait for the crucial patch with the game on shelf.
There's only six months until the set release date (and we can bar December from the list - it's Holiday, and the last 2 weeks before release, which will be dedicated to burning the disks, packaging them and sending them to retailers). This leaves some 4 months of proper work on the sim - very short, in game development term, AFAIK.
Here are a few things that look still far from being ready (sorry for the Yahoo translation):


- They said to me that the Asincrònico operation of the motors port-starboard was high in the list of priorities stops after finishing the strong campaign. Nevertheless, we debated that to implement this it supposes to them to make changes in the interface (basically, using one's wits itself like including it), but the important thing was the discussion on the problems to implement the compensation of direction with the rudders.

- It would be then possible to also do that when we see the U-boot by external camera, to see as the artillerymen load the 88 of cover or machine guns?
In the version of the presentation, habia crew in cover, because according to they said to me, was not even made the animations corresponding, but they have confirmed to me that we will see those details (in fact, we will be able to also see as the crew lubricates and loads the torpedoes in the tubes, so she is of drawer).

- If we sailed by the North Atlantic, or the winter is not had to notice, that if sailing by North emisferio?
In the presentation of SH5 they parecian to have climatologic effects. Not so drastic, but existing. Soon they confirmed to me that different states from meteorology habran several models 3D by boat reflecting.

- What so a machine enigma in which to receive the communications of bdu?
I do not have answer of this, although debatio and we thought that serious something very peculiar in the simulator, I believe perhaps that it does not appeal to the “facility of handling” that wants, reason why we do not see this in SH5.

[tonschk]

2 - Funcionamiento asincrònico de los motores babor-estribor ( uno sí, otro no, uno avante, otro atras toda, etc. ) Y que afecten el curso!
Me dijeron que esto estaba alto en la lista de prioridades para despues de terminar la campaña dinamica. Sin embargo, debatimos que implementar esto les supone hacer cambios en la interfaz (basicamente, el ingeniarse como incluirlo), pero lo mas importante era la discusion sobre los problemas de implementar la compensacion de direccion con los timones. Si bien, no parece mucho problema para los submarinos alemanes (por que tenian helices y timones dobles, o eso concluimos), tenian en mente las dificultades de implementar la compensacion para los casos en que se implementasen otros tipos de submarinos (se hablaba de POSIBLES expansiones y cosas que añadiesen nuevos submarinos de otras armadas, y de como intentar compensar en esos nuevos submarinos si podia ser un problema al ser diferentes modelos de propulsion y navegacion). Si alguno sabeis de este tema (ODSH? ), podriamos hacer "feedback" directo a los desarrolladores para que consigan que funcione correctamente esta caracteristica.



Translation

The DEVS consider the implementation of independent control of left/right engine hight in the list of priorities but the main problem ( after the build of a interface to manage this ) is the direction/compensation problem with the rudders , this does not look difficult to do with the german subs which have two rudders and two propellers but can be difficult to implement in other subs after the ADDON of Expansions which have other new subs of other countries , those new subs can have different ways for propultion and steering and therefore the compensation problem can be different


.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by dcb

Thank you Martes for the info (and thanks to Yahoo for the automatic translator though its translations are rather tricky to understand)

I could not be in Copenhagen myself, so maybe I didn't get things right. Anyway, judging by what I read, there is a whole lot of things still not implemented or in work, just 6 months before the release. I wonder if they'll be able to meet the March 2010 deadline. If not, I'd prefer Ubisoft holds the game until the devs have time to do their job right. Else, if they're forced to put the game on market without the planned features being fully functional, then we're heading to another SH3&4-style bugfest. I'd rather play a good game - say - in September 2010 than wait for the crucial patch with the game on shelf.
There's only six months until the set release date (and we can bar December from the list - it's Holiday, and the last 2 weeks before release, which will be dedicated to burning the disks, packaging them and sending them to retailers). This leaves some 4 months of proper work on the sim - very short, in game development term, AFAIK.

Well, the translators need exact and proper orthography and grammar (impossible in regular participations without parsing all posts with Word before posting), I should've tried to correct the stuff a little. Anyways, I'll try to make a proper translation for you guys of everything that comes out.

I think they have enough time to nix all those things that didn't seem finished. After all, it was a presentation version (though patched right there), so it probably was missing the newest stuff or almost-complete stuff. Also, in my opinion, some stuff isn't that complicated to do, just a little down the task list, so I don't think we should worry too much about. Also, we all unanimously agreed on the fiasco that SH4's early relase represented, so I don't think that scenario is very likely to repeat itself again, at least not with SH5.

Originally Posted by tonschk

Translation

The DEVS consider the implementation of independent control of left/right engine hight in the list of priorities but the main problem ( after the build of a interface to manage this ) is the direction/compensation problem with the rudders , this does not look difficult to do with the german subs which have two rudders and two propellers but can be difficult to implement in other subs after the ADDON of Expansions which have other new subs of other countries , those new subs can have different ways for propultion and steering and therefore the compensation problem can be different

A little note I'd like to make here. I think the translation may give the wrong impression about the addons part. In the Spanish version, I said that we were talking about what it might represent for POSSIBLE future expansions that MAY (or MAY NOT) include submarines from other nations, but nothing solid right now, just talks and plans, and conjectures.

Cheers

[haegemon]

Don't worry modders will do de job


The feedback...about the interface they can add a parameter to the submarine object, and use as interface a rudder "image" with two levers where people clicks on the levers directly.
And how to compensate de propulsion. They would need a block of program code for every kind of simulation (one or two helix, rotation to the left or to the right).

I'll post it in programmer argot an example of how it could work:

twin_drive = [On=1 /Off=0]
var_lever1 (interface imputs)
var_lever2 (interface imputs)
var_helix1 (propeller)
var_helix2 (propeller)
controller_code1 (for nomal subs impulse)
controller_code2 (for twin helix submarines)


*state variable defaults

var_lever1_visible = 1
var_lever2_visible = 1
var_helix1 = var_lever1
var_helix2 = var_lever2
twin drive = 1
var_controller = controller_code2


[Controller_code1]

more code....
var_helix1 = var_lever1
var_helix2 = var_lever1
var_lever2 = 0


[Controller_code2]

more code....
var_helix1 = var_lever1
var_helix2 = var_lever2
var_lever2 = 1

-----------------

if twin_drive = 1
var_controller = Controller_code2
elseif
var_controller = Controller_code1
elseif
...
...
end if

Programmers will know how it's their engine and why if they can't apply this logic or how to do it.

[Semtex]

Originally Posted by haegemon

Don't worry modders will do de job

[Safe-Keeper]

...however, I hope that the "affect on land battles" can be turned off by the player. Something similar was done with Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator III years ago... and it creates a hokey historical 'revisionism.' Not cool AT ALL IMHO.

Depends on how it's implemented. It was a complaint among many of us that no matter how well you fought, the war trudged on as if you didn't exist. Your actions should have an effect on the game, even if those effects are tiny.

In even simpler terms: Guys, stop posting ridiculous pseudocode, someone from UBI might actually read this and get pissed off by this .. kind of conversation.

IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite.true
THEN
ignore
endif

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite.true
THEN
ignore
endif

[COMPILER ERROR] Incorrect typecast 'GlobalExplorer' to 'IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite'
[COMPILER FATAL ERROR] Too many crappy attempts at code in this thread
[COMPILER HINT] Define business requirements; leave system specifications to professionals

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by JScones

[COMPILER ERROR] Incorrect typecast 'GlobalExplorer' to 'IfComeAcrossGrumpyForumite'
[COMPILER FATAL ERROR] Too many crappy attempts at code in this thread
[COMPILER HINT] Define business requirements; leave system specifications to professionals

[kapitan_zur_see]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Just a thought and in the spirit of this thread.

I thought to myself while playing SH4 Hrm ... I spend 90% of my time looking at the 2D map.

Im already able to wander the sub a bit with camera changes by mods but dont really use it much.

While it will be very cool to be able to amble about the subs interior and such... most likely 90% of play time will be spend looking at the map.

Can't agree more! that's why having all the sub modelled has to serve some gameplay purpose! otherwise, it'll just finish like some kind of museum tour. You'll make the all around the boat trip for educational purpose and then won't make it again... Dev make it also so damages can be seen in each compartments so you'd rush there to inspect, see water gradually level up inside compartment etc.

[Sulikate]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Oh, another tidbit: ships will have snow and icecicles in arctic climes.

Nice touch

[floundericiousWA]

Originally Posted by kapitan_zur_see

Can't agree more! that's why having all the sub modelled has to serve some gameplay purpose! otherwise, it'll just finish like some kind of museum tour. You'll make the all around the boat trip for educational purpose and then won't make it again... Dev make it also so damages can be seen in each compartments so you'd rush there to inspect, see water gradually level up inside compartment etc.

That would be nice, but I don't know that I'd want the devs spending time doing that...

Well, ok...but only if you can then personally turn the crank on the hatch and lock Bernard in the flooding compartment!!!