Constant Bearing Method, with TDC

Pacific_Ace · 09-23-09, 10:24 AM

RR sez:
"Now lets take the situation where you shoot after AoB 90 and the torpedo is approaching from astern of the beam. Here, if the target turns left, he turns broadside to the torpedo, presenting a much larger target to hit, thank you very much, he has suddenly made his situation much worse and BOOM!"

I sez: I'm thinking this through in my head and coming up with 'thats only valid if he's turning into the direction the shot came from'. If he turns away, he is showing you his stern and reducing cross-section.

Rockin Robbins · 09-23-09, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacific_Ace

RR sez:
"Now lets take the situation where you shoot after AoB 90 and the torpedo is approaching from astern of the beam. Here, if the target turns left, he turns broadside to the torpedo, presenting a much larger target to hit, thank you very much, he has suddenly made his situation much worse and BOOM!"

I sez: I'm thinking this through in my head and coming up with 'thats only valid if he's turning into the direction the shot came from'. If he turns away, he is showing you his stern and reducing cross-section.

That's true, but in this situation he would have to turn right to do that. I've already positied a rule that Japanese merchie captains turn left when they see a torpedo.

It seems to me that if there were a merchie rule, I'd make it that if the torpdeo approaches from aft of the beam you turn away, if from forward of the beam, you turn toward. However, I was working from the theoretical rule that frederf put into his post, just to illustrate that just like in real life we could anticpate habits of the enemy and turn them into sinkings.

Unfortunately, I have seen very few habits other than the dragster behavior when torpedoes are sighted.

Frederf · 09-23-09, 05:19 PM

I'm pretty sure Japanese merchants of the time were taught "turn into a bow torpedo, turn away from a real torpedo" just like US sub captains were. There are examples of "turn this way training" like the ASW thing you mentioned and I believe some fighter pilots. I guess it would come down to a deck hand maybe having the presence of mind to scream "Torpedo attack, aft!" instead of "Torpedo attack!" in Japanese or just freezing up in disbelief.

Also I think the game makes the lookouts a little too vigilant with regards to spotting torpedo tracks and too quick to react both the crew and the ship itself physically. I was just simply trying to list plenty of "what-ifs" of factors that were present in real life that may not be modeled factors in the game or our gamer behavior.

Now for a 135 TTa shot yes turning one way or the other improves or worsens the target angular size but honestly both spoil the actual solution. If the target turns parallel to the torpedo track his angular motion goes from 0.707 to 0 or if he turns broadside his angular motion goes from 0.707 to 1. Either way he's not going to be where the torpedo expects him to be, the only difference is if it misses astern or passes alongside. Simply turning broadside is hardly the kiss of death.

I suppose that 0.707 and 0 are farther apart than 0.707 and 1 so turning broadside doesn't change the angular motion by as much as turning parallel. Also you figure that a spread of torpedoes are gunna cover a wide range so getting out of the way is not practical, you have to "turn slim." For a 150 degree shot the difference between turning 180 or 90 does the same thing.

I don't know of any real life torpedo shots that were purposefully aimed with the idea that "if the target turns left this'll get him." They simply fired spreads. Stuff like "angular target width 3 degrees, coverage 150%, maximum gap 67% = 3 torpedo spread 0,+2.25,-2.25."

I'm goin' down · 09-23-09, 11:17 PM

If the 4600 yd line, the one that intersects the course line, does not start at my boat, where does it start? Where does it end? At the course line? And I assume my boat is on the 4600 yd. line. Do we need a different line if we use a different torpedoe speed?

Depending on where the course line interesects the 4600 yd. line, it will affect the distance. I understand using the target's speed to run up/down the target line to the firing point. I understand setting up the angle.

I assume we are not entering AoB in the TDC? Are we entering target speed into the TDC? Are we entering distance in the TDC?

I need this information so I can start at step 1 in this exercise. the math is beyond me.

09-23-09, 11:17 PM	#4
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	I am not too good at this If the 4600 yd line, the one that intersects the course line, does not start at my boat, where does it start? Where does it end? At the course line? And I assume my boat is on the 4600 yd. line. Do we need a different line if we use a different torpedoe speed? Depending on where the course line interesects the 4600 yd. line, it will affect the distance. I understand using the target's speed to run up/down the target line to the firing point. I understand setting up the angle. I assume we are not entering AoB in the TDC? Are we entering target speed into the TDC? Are we entering distance in the TDC? I need this information so I can start at step 1 in this exercise. the math is beyond me.

09-23-09, 10:24 AM	#1
Pacific_Ace Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 61 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	RR sez: "Now lets take the situation where you shoot after AoB 90 and the torpedo is approaching from astern of the beam. Here, if the target turns left, he turns broadside to the torpedo, presenting a much larger target to hit, thank you very much, he has suddenly made his situation much worse and BOOM!" I sez: I'm thinking this through in my head and coming up with 'thats only valid if he's turning into the direction the shot came from'. If he turns away, he is showing you his stern and reducing cross-section.

09-23-09, 05:19 PM	#3
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	I'm pretty sure Japanese merchants of the time were taught "turn into a bow torpedo, turn away from a real torpedo" just like US sub captains were. There are examples of "turn this way training" like the ASW thing you mentioned and I believe some fighter pilots. I guess it would come down to a deck hand maybe having the presence of mind to scream "Torpedo attack, aft!" instead of "Torpedo attack!" in Japanese or just freezing up in disbelief. Also I think the game makes the lookouts a little too vigilant with regards to spotting torpedo tracks and too quick to react both the crew and the ship itself physically. I was just simply trying to list plenty of "what-ifs" of factors that were present in real life that may not be modeled factors in the game or our gamer behavior. Now for a 135 TTa shot yes turning one way or the other improves or worsens the target angular size but honestly both spoil the actual solution. If the target turns parallel to the torpedo track his angular motion goes from 0.707 to 0 or if he turns broadside his angular motion goes from 0.707 to 1. Either way he's not going to be where the torpedo expects him to be, the only difference is if it misses astern or passes alongside. Simply turning broadside is hardly the kiss of death. I suppose that 0.707 and 0 are farther apart than 0.707 and 1 so turning broadside doesn't change the angular motion by as much as turning parallel. Also you figure that a spread of torpedoes are gunna cover a wide range so getting out of the way is not practical, you have to "turn slim." For a 150 degree shot the difference between turning 180 or 90 does the same thing. I don't know of any real life torpedo shots that were purposefully aimed with the idea that "if the target turns left this'll get him." They simply fired spreads. Stuff like "angular target width 3 degrees, coverage 150%, maximum gap 67% = 3 torpedo spread 0,+2.25,-2.25."