WOLF PACKS in SH5 - Page 3

Seeadler · 09-21-09, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

furthermore... while playing games like IL2 with airplanes buzzing everywhere, or Microsoft flight simulator X with AI traffic set to 100% in dense scenery i see virtually no performance degradation.
...
i think it is a safe conclusion that adding 3 to 5 AI u-boats in occasional convoy attacks would not notably affect system performance.

full agree!

I have installed a few days ago the latest version of the Freespace2 Source Project, a space sim/shooter based on the open source of Freespace2 (released 1999). In 1999, on PC's systems most gamers would laugh about, fighting task groups similar to wolfpacks are already in this game and with a genius AI that time. Today for the actual version this AI is further improved by the community developers of the project, your group of space ships fighting together agains large enemy groups. Every one can take an insight of this AI routines because the full C++ sourcecode is available via SVN.

For AI routines like this, it makes no real difference whether they are control models of spaceships in a 3D space environment or models of submarines in a 3D ocean environment.

JU_88 · 09-21-09, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The General

@JU 88

Q: How do you programme the enemy A.I. to attack the A.I. subs in the Pack in a realistic fashion and not focus all their attention on you?

A: You can't.

The same way you program the AI to attack AI ships or aircraft in a realistic fashion and not always focus on you.

It will simply attack what every it sees/ detects first, tis the same for every game where you are not the only target.
Try it the mission editor and you'll see what I mean

Quote:

Originally Posted by The General

Q: Who gave you the authority to tell me what I could and could not post?

A: Nobody.

Correct, Sorry

I was just wanted to hear your take on it. sorry if I sounded like a git.

Hartmann · 09-21-09, 08:48 PM

Wolfpacks are not difficult to implement.

I remember sh1 and aces of the deep with IA submarines, including an old abandonware game with IA submarines, and only 500 k of size, so it´s not true that it can be difficult or impossible to implement.( wolfpack from novalogic).
Also a lot of flight sims have IA planes that reacts to enemy units in a 3d enviroment.

I think that is a must have in a atlantic war sim, the sensation of be in a full campaign with other friendly units around making contacts, attacking and other operations and radio messages

It´s the equivalent of fly a combat flight sim without friendly planes and no wingman, flying alone against the enemy planes.

Another thing is if they don´t have enough money/time to expend implementing this because the other modifications of sh3/sh4 engine consumes a lot of resources and work ( full interior) but at least i hope they could make possible this with IA controllers for no player boats.

Payoff · 09-21-09, 09:51 PM

I voted 50/50. As for AI subs, I think it would be far more exciting to be stalked or have chance encounters with British or other allied subs which have the ability to kill you at sea. With regard to wolfpacks, I would be pleased with more dynamic radio interaction & an occasional hit on a convoy I am attacking by a simulated u-boat (which has been mentioned before). Maybe to allow me to thread my way through the escort screen, but I dont feel the need to grab the Freecam and go to 150m to watch a fellow u-boat get depth charged.

just my two cents

Payoff

nikimcbee · 09-21-09, 10:30 PM

If wolfpack could do it waaaaay back then, I don't see why they couldn't do it now?

nikimcbee · 09-21-09, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

If wolfpack could do it waaaaay back then, I don't see why they couldn't do it now?

what's wolfpack?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...41#post1176441

V.C. Sniper · 09-21-09, 10:39 PM

Must be in

FIREWALL · 09-21-09, 10:44 PM

Is there a post anywhere on the internet by UBI devs or UBI that definatly says ... No Wolfpacks ?

Produce it.

mookiemookie · 09-21-09, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Is there a post anywhere on the internet by UBI devs or UBI that definatly says ... No Wolfpacks ?

Produce it.

I think everyone's getting uppity because of Neal's report from the Europe meet that said that wolfpacks are not a certainty.

FIREWALL · 09-21-09, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think everyone's getting uppity because of Neal's report from the Europe meet that said that wolfpacks are not a certainty.

Mookie But if they don't say yay or nay it's a real suspense builder.

nikimcbee · 09-21-09, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think everyone's getting uppity because of Neal's report from the Europe meet that said that wolfpacks are not a certainty.

If that's the case, I wonder what the problem/holdup is?

dcb · 09-21-09, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

If that's the case, I wonder what the problem/holdup is?

I'd bet it's programming a new submarine AI smart enough to look realistic to us, old subsimmers, and to integrate it into the game engine. This is more than just scripting some new ships or missions, it is deeply embedded in the engine code. Hard, indeed, but still an absolute must.

Grothesj2 · 09-22-09, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The General

A.I. Wolfpacks would make an unacceptable drain on the computer's resources and drastically impact frame-rates. Sorry, but that's a fact.

My verdict is that Wolfpacks should only be available in Multi-player.

Untrue. IL-2 can have hoardes of AI planes flying around, doing complex manuevers, shooting, bombing targets with little impact on most computers. Slow moving ship action should be far far less resource intensive.

The General · 09-22-09, 02:54 AM

Hahaha! I love stirring the pot!!!!

09-22-09, 02:56 AM

I side with payoff. More radio interaction from BDU on convoy contacts would be fantastic.
That would be suffuciant enough for me to simulate a wolfpack. Perhaps the sound of depth charges in the distance, but anything beyond that would merely be a sideshow. Radio interaction and perhaps a third numerical digit in the contact reports. No need to change the grid chart for that.

View Poll Results: How important are Wolf Packs in SH5 to you, the customer ?
Pah...who cares!	23	5.34%
Only if the devs have some spare time.	42	9.74%
I'm 50/50	116	26.91%
I'm not sure i'd buy the game without them.	36	8.35%
An Absolute Must	214	49.65%
Voters: 431. You may not vote on this poll

09-21-09, 08:48 PM	#33
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Wolfpacks are not difficult to implement. I remember sh1 and aces of the deep with IA submarines, including an old abandonware game with IA submarines, and only 500 k of size, so it´s not true that it can be difficult or impossible to implement.( wolfpack from novalogic). Also a lot of flight sims have IA planes that reacts to enemy units in a 3d enviroment. I think that is a must have in a atlantic war sim, the sensation of be in a full campaign with other friendly units around making contacts, attacking and other operations and radio messages It´s the equivalent of fly a combat flight sim without friendly planes and no wingman, flying alone against the enemy planes. Another thing is if they don´t have enough money/time to expend implementing this because the other modifications of sh3/sh4 engine consumes a lot of resources and work ( full interior) but at least i hope they could make possible this with IA controllers for no player boats. __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

09-21-09, 09:51 PM	#34
Payoff Captain Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nash Town, USA Posts: 525 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I voted 50/50. As for AI subs, I think it would be far more exciting to be stalked or have chance encounters with British or other allied subs which have the ability to kill you at sea. With regard to wolfpacks, I would be pleased with more dynamic radio interaction & an occasional hit on a convoy I am attacking by a simulated u-boat (which has been mentioned before). Maybe to allow me to thread my way through the escort screen, but I dont feel the need to grab the Freecam and go to 150m to watch a fellow u-boat get depth charged. just my two cents Payoff __________________ "Hit Shokaku class carrier with three out of six torpedos. Recieved 105 depth charges during three hour period. Heard four terrific explosions in the direction of target, two and one half hours after attack. Believe that baby sank!" Lieutenant Commander Herman Kossler USS Cavalla

09-21-09, 10:30 PM	#35
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	If wolfpack could do it waaaaay back then, I don't see why they couldn't do it now? __________________

09-21-09, 10:39 PM	#37
V.C. Sniper Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Must be in __________________ I only need one torpedo.

09-21-09, 10:44 PM	#38
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Is there a post anywhere on the internet by UBI devs or UBI that definatly says ... No Wolfpacks ? Produce it. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

09-22-09, 02:54 AM	#44
The General The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mountain Ash, Wales, U.K. Posts: 1,548 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 3	Wolfpacks are in the game!! Hahaha! I love stirring the pot!!!! __________________ *THE GENERAL*

09-22-09, 02:56 AM	#45
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I side with payoff. More radio interaction from BDU on convoy contacts would be fantastic. That would be suffuciant enough for me to simulate a wolfpack. Perhaps the sound of depth charges in the distance, but anything beyond that would merely be a sideshow. Radio interaction and perhaps a third numerical digit in the contact reports. No need to change the grid chart for that.