Guides and Training

Frederf · 09-07-09, 04:17 PM

I think it's rash to discredit any of the graphs or math for not taking in all possible tactical factors. The base assumption in pretty much all of these targeting tools is a contact that will continue to travel in a straight line throughout the attack. O'Kane or Cromwell methods are similarly lacking in their encompassing of all factors.

Another big one is these all assume our ordinance works perfectly which, don't mention this to the Admiral Lockwood, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. All methods are limited by their driving factors. This is the only thing that makes the problems tractable. It is up to the commander to utilize the various methods with the brainglue to bridge all of them together.

I'd like to throw a red flag at this notion that "fastest speed-made-good to target" is somehow the best. A meeting of greater than right angles means a slower effective torpedo speed...boohoo. If torpedo approach speed was such a boon, we'd all be shooting straight down the bow's of targets. I could even argue that the slower torpedo approach speed places the torpedo in close vicinity of the target for longer which should increase the odds of impact. Obviously shortest physical run and endurance are nice things but the balance point between that and other aiming factors likely skews the best combined track angle away from 90.

Practically, my track angle depends on a lot. Due to the problems with the MK14's impact detonator, my TTa windows are currently 50-60 and 120-130. I hear that shallower tracks are better for magnetic detonation too. It's really nice to know what the best TTa's are for perfectly functioning hardware for when I get some more reliable fish. Against convoys I'll most certainly be using a convoy speed-directed TTa as the chance of picking up secondary impacts outweighs first target accuracy.

magic452 · 09-08-09, 02:35 AM

@ distortion

Good luck with this, it could be very helpful.
I'm working on it as well but from a different track.
I got a couple of ideas I'll try tomorrow.

Magic

Rockin Robbins · 09-08-09, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

I'd like to throw a red flag at this notion that "fastest speed-made-good to target" is somehow the best. A meeting of greater than right angles means a slower effective torpedo speed...boohoo.

Perhaps in real life you would be correct, but this is a game in which a target can accelerate from 15 to 30 knots in about five seconds. Shortest time to impact is very important in Silent Hunter 4 compared to real life.

CaptainJack · 09-18-09, 11:20 PM

I tried to search this thread, but did not see this question. Sorry if I missed it. I am playing SH4 1.5 with RFB 1.52 and the Easy AOB.

Can we talk range here for a minute when using O'Kane? I've been using this method fairly successfully - I say fairly, because it seems mostly accurate, but I also experience occasions where the torp will run mysteriously just ahead or astern. I get hits, but lots of time not in location where the ship trips the wire when I fire. Sometimes, I will set-up being careful to double-click on AOB and bearing, yet I can tell by arrows on the TDC that that shots will go terribly awry - and they do - mystery

After watching Rockin Robbins tutorial for the 4th time today, I finally noticed something. When he drags his range triangle as far counter-clockwise as possible, his range on TDC goes to about 1240 (IIRC); when I do same, my range on TDC goes to 241

- 1000 yards less, that is not a typo!

OK - so I go back to save game and try something: My range to target is 750 so I drag range triangle until range on TDC is 800 before clicking range and bearing having previously set target speed at 12 and AOB at 75 (target bearing is set at 345). I've tried this shot with mixed results before and the only change now is range setting. Fire four torps - bow crane, 1st funnel, 2nd funnel, stern crane - guess what: four precise hits. Go external and check damage on ship - four precisely spaced holes exactly where I aimed.

Conclusion: perhaps range does matter, and I can't simply drag my range triangle as far counter clock-wise as possible. In fact, playing with range meter, I seem to be able to drag around a max range of 12030 down to 241 - so where that range registers when you drag the triangle to the right seems to be a function of where it started - results will vary wildly. And since the arrows on the TDC will move as range is adusted, it seems to matter. With O'Kane, I am now going to be setting range at least higher than my actual - or maybe just 1000 is the magic number - just not sure. Please tell me what I am missing! Thanks

Rockin Robbins · 09-18-09, 11:24 PM

Yup, you're right. You're experiencing an Easy AoB hiccup, where it acts differently from the stock dials I'm using in the tutorial. However you have to do it, entering a range of 1200 yards or so should make the technique deadly accurate for gyro angles of under 30º.

If, for some reason you're shooting at great range or outside the 30º gyro angle it's important to set your range to somewhere in the rough neighborhood of the target range. Several hundred yards plus or minus shouldn't matter much. All the guys who love precision are just cringing right now!

CaptainJack · 09-19-09, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Yup, you're right. You're experiencing an Easy AoB hiccup, where it acts differently from the stock dials I'm using in the tutorial. However you have to do it, entering a range of 1200 yards or so should make the technique deadly accurate for gyro angles of under 30º.

If, for some reason you're shooting at great range or outside the 30º gyro angle it's important to set your range to somewhere in the rough neighborhood of the target range. Several hundred yards plus or minus shouldn't matter much. All the guys who love precision are just cringing right now!

Thanks - makes sense that it was a mod thing. Thanks too for the advice - I will put it to use. And glad I watched your video again. I wonder how many ships that video has sunk?! Looking forward to better shooting!

OrangeYoshi · 10-24-09, 03:02 AM

Rockin Robbins,

Thank you for the videos you make. They are very informational, easy to understand, and possibly most of all, you are fun to listen to! I haven't watched all the other videos I've downloaded yet, but I wanted to stop in and be just one more person to try to tell you how good you are at this stuff, and thank you for all your work.

Rockin Robbins · 10-24-09, 02:42 PM

Yeah, when I get the facts all wrong I can always fall back on the entertainment value!

Actually, with the requirements I put on my videos, real time with no time compression, one cut production so you can learn the pacing of the actual attack, complete with dead space and boredom sometimes, "live" production values with no editing afterwards, I'm always worried that they will be too boring and that people will stop watching before they can learn what I'm trying to teach.

I'm glad to learn that isn't always the case.

09-08-09, 02:35 AM	#2
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	@ distortion Good luck with this, it could be very helpful. I'm working on it as well but from a different track. I got a couple of ideas I'll try tomorrow. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

09-18-09, 11:20 PM	#4
CaptainJack Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 13 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	O'Kane & range I tried to search this thread, but did not see this question. Sorry if I missed it. I am playing SH4 1.5 with RFB 1.52 and the Easy AOB. Can we talk range here for a minute when using O'Kane? I've been using this method fairly successfully - I say fairly, because it seems mostly accurate, but I also experience occasions where the torp will run mysteriously just ahead or astern. I get hits, but lots of time not in location where the ship trips the wire when I fire. Sometimes, I will set-up being careful to double-click on AOB and bearing, yet I can tell by arrows on the TDC that that shots will go terribly awry - and they do - mystery After watching Rockin Robbins tutorial for the 4th time today, I finally noticed something. When he drags his range triangle as far counter-clockwise as possible, his range on TDC goes to about 1240 (IIRC); when I do same, my range on TDC goes to 241 - 1000 yards less, that is not a typo! OK - so I go back to save game and try something: My range to target is 750 so I drag range triangle until range on TDC is 800 before clicking range and bearing having previously set target speed at 12 and AOB at 75 (target bearing is set at 345). I've tried this shot with mixed results before and the only change now is range setting. Fire four torps - bow crane, 1st funnel, 2nd funnel, stern crane - guess what: four precise hits. Go external and check damage on ship - four precisely spaced holes exactly where I aimed. Conclusion: perhaps range does matter, and I can't simply drag my range triangle as far counter clock-wise as possible. In fact, playing with range meter, I seem to be able to drag around a max range of 12030 down to 241 - so where that range registers when you drag the triangle to the right seems to be a function of where it started - results will vary wildly. And since the arrows on the TDC will move as range is adusted, it seems to matter. With O'Kane, I am now going to be setting range at least higher than my actual - or maybe just 1000 is the magic number - just not sure. Please tell me what I am missing! Thanks

09-18-09, 11:24 PM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Yup, you're right. You're experiencing an Easy AoB hiccup, where it acts differently from the stock dials I'm using in the tutorial. However you have to do it, entering a range of 1200 yards or so should make the technique deadly accurate for gyro angles of under 30º. If, for some reason you're shooting at great range or outside the 30º gyro angle it's important to set your range to somewhere in the rough neighborhood of the target range. Several hundred yards plus or minus shouldn't matter much. All the guys who love precision are just cringing right now! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

10-24-09, 03:02 AM	#7
OrangeYoshi Gunner Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: In your computer screen Posts: 100 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Rockin Robbins, Thank you for the videos you make. They are very informational, easy to understand, and possibly most of all, you are fun to listen to! I haven't watched all the other videos I've downloaded yet, but I wanted to stop in and be just one more person to try to tell you how good you are at this stuff, and thank you for all your work. __________________ OrangeYoshi

10-24-09, 02:42 PM	#8
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Yeah, when I get the facts all wrong I can always fall back on the entertainment value! Actually, with the requirements I put on my videos, real time with no time compression, one cut production so you can learn the pacing of the actual attack, complete with dead space and boredom sometimes, "live" production values with no editing afterwards, I'm always worried that they will be too boring and that people will stop watching before they can learn what I'm trying to teach. I'm glad to learn that isn't always the case. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS Last edited by Rockin Robbins; 10-24-09 at 02:59 PM.

09-07-09, 04:17 PM	#1
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	I think it's rash to discredit any of the graphs or math for not taking in all possible tactical factors. The base assumption in pretty much all of these targeting tools is a contact that will continue to travel in a straight line throughout the attack. O'Kane or Cromwell methods are similarly lacking in their encompassing of all factors. Another big one is these all assume our ordinance works perfectly which, don't mention this to the Admiral Lockwood, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. All methods are limited by their driving factors. This is the only thing that makes the problems tractable. It is up to the commander to utilize the various methods with the brainglue to bridge all of them together. I'd like to throw a red flag at this notion that "fastest speed-made-good to target" is somehow the best. A meeting of greater than right angles means a slower effective torpedo speed...boohoo. If torpedo approach speed was such a boon, we'd all be shooting straight down the bow's of targets. I could even argue that the slower torpedo approach speed places the torpedo in close vicinity of the target for longer which should increase the odds of impact. Obviously shortest physical run and endurance are nice things but the balance point between that and other aiming factors likely skews the best combined track angle away from 90. Practically, my track angle depends on a lot. Due to the problems with the MK14's impact detonator, my TTa windows are currently 50-60 and 120-130. I hear that shallower tracks are better for magnetic detonation too. It's really nice to know what the best TTa's are for perfectly functioning hardware for when I get some more reliable fish. Against convoys I'll most certainly be using a convoy speed-directed TTa as the chance of picking up secondary impacts outweighs first target accuracy.