Obama punishes small country opposed to dictatorial ex-president

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Wrong link Neal?

thanks, fixed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...711784150.html

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

thanks, fixed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...711784150.html

Strange experience for me to see me and a right-winged source agreeing that much on an issue! A bit too much of unneeded rethoric in it, but nevertheless by content it is true.

Just complementing your earlier quote from the article:

It is also asking Hondurans to risk the fate of Venezuela. They know how Venezuela's Hugo Chávez went from being democratically elected the first time, in 1998, to making himself dictator for life. He did it by destroying his country's institutional checks and balances. When Mr. Zelaya moved to do the same in Honduras, the nation cut him off at the pass.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Strange experience for me to see me and a right-winged source agreeing that much on an issue!

Perhaps the reason is you are more of a pragmatist, than a leftist ideolog. Your posts on Islam show a distinct lack of left leaning ideas. If I may go a step or two further, I'd catagorize you as a pragmatic-nationalist.

It is not unsuprising that you often make comments which on the surface appear left leaning since the german press is for the most part a bastion of left leaning articles, at least as compared to nations outside the EU. This may be the natural reaction to the National Socialism which gripped Germany in the middle of the 20th Century. What is often lost on most folks is the word 'socialism' in the party's name.

To recap, I look at you and your writings as a product of your pragmatic-nationalist outlook.

I could be wrong, but that is how I see it. I mean no offence, and hope none is taken.
Cheers

[Skybird]

Pragmatic, okay, nationalist: no. I see certain qualities and characteristics of our western culture as superior in principle in humane quality to certain other still existing "cultures" or ideologies, although I see our time fading and our culture degenerating and falling apart. But it was both build upon and formed by images and ideas that in my conviction make these ideas the climax of human civilisational developement, even if we sell them off now. But by the definition of the term "nationalist", that way of thinking does not make me a nationalist, I think. In some aspects of my thinking, I am deeply uncivilised (by conviction), and a cultural outlaw. For example when it comes to "war". I hate simplifying reality in catchphrases and slogans, and I see the world as a web of interdynamic complexity so high that we cannot see the order in it and thus easily classify events as being chaotic. But often they can be explained - one only needs to widen one's view sufficiently. With many popular political slogans, like "equality of man" and "social justice", I am at war with. Many words are being made these days - but without meaning anything anymore. and worse it is when terms are being used in violation of their original meaning, only to trigger irrational emotions and by that manipulate the crowds.

I see myself as a realist, a bit stoic at times, a bit stubborn at others, eclectic in your meaning of "pragmatic" and open to needed or valuable chnages, but being conservative too: not so much in values but in keeping what I see as proven and valuable from the past. I pragmatically use terms like "politically left" and "right" in communication to refer to popular categories of political orientation, and make communication easier by simplifying that way - but I have no use for them to define my own views. And I do not care what stamp people use to describe my ideas. My ideas are one thing - people's stamp is a very different.

For lefties, I am usually too right, and for rightwingers, I am usually too left. If that makes sense! Maybe it does - if you had enough drinks at the end of the day.

Congress and Supreme Court acted on behalf of valid Hondurean laws and the constitution.

Really ?
So what Honduran laws allow for the military overthrow and exile of elected representatives ?
Where does the constitution allow for such moves?
Oh they don't do they, so the legal and constitutional arguement is bollox .
Maybe thats why 192 countries unanimously condemned the illegal coup.

To call the events a coup is simply absurd and total rubbish.

A coup is a coup.

The military did not stage a coup by itself, but followed calls by the supreme court.

Hey you called it a coup.
But anyway the supreme court cannot make those calls and the military is barred from taking those actions , its against the constitution and against the law.

It is lightyears apart from the coups central America has seen twenty years ago.

The genocide in Rwanda was light years apart from the industrialised genocide in the third reich ...it was still a genocide though just like this coup in Honduras is still a coup.

They know how Venezuela's Hugo Chávez went from being democratically elected the first time, in 1998, to making himself dictator for life. He did it by destroying his country's institutional checks and balances.

Thats a strange quote from the article , very strange indeed as Chavez hasn't been made dictator for life, he hasn't even secured the right to run for election again because he didn't get the votes of the people in the referendum . I suppose voting and the constitution articles about changing the constitution must have been some of those checks and balances he destroyed .
Where was all the outrage when Uribe abolished term limits ?
Come to think of it didn't this new bloke who has taken over in the coup support a previous Presidents attempt to abolish term limits in Honduras.

All in all its a rather sloppy article , I didn't expect the WSJ to go downhill so fast after the buyout.
As for the US government imposing Visa restrictions , thats pretty standard for a country to do when another country gets its government overthrown isn't it , not really news at all .

[August]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Really ?
So what Honduran laws allow for the military overthrow and exile of elected representatives ?
Where does the constitution allow for such moves?

Article 239, didn't you read?

Article 239, didn't you read?

Yes I did , would you like to quote the actual constitution ?
Would you then like to quote all the other articles which show the removal was unconstitutional , perhaps then you can read the actual court ruling and see why it is very dodgy , then you camn read the warrant and see why it was not only illegal but was illegaly enacted and even then not even followed , then perhaps for good measure you can view the actions of the remaining "congress" and see how just about every action they have taken is both illegal and unconstitutional.

Or you could of course just go by a very sloppy piece of journalism presented as an editorial and form your views from that......oh thats what you did didn't you.