Simulations a dying breed... No says Paradox Interactive

danlisa · 08-27-09, 05:27 AM

Like many others here I won't say that the Sim market is dead, yet.

Regardless of our beliefs on the subject, developers are in the business to make a profit and PC exclusive Simulations are not turning out the figures to sustain the market indefinitely. TBH with you, the main reason for this is the longevity of these Sim titles and in part the moddability of each Sim, while initially boosting sales, does nothing but hurt the following title in a series.

We all live in a disposable society and games are becoming more and more disposable along with it. As such developers and production studios have realised where the money is and are moving over in their droves. For example; the SH series has sold 1.5 million copies in it's lifetime but a single console game will sell that in 1 weekend (if not a single day).

Which brings me nicely onto the subject of consoles.

For the mature Sim gamers, you lot don't half moan about consoles killing off PC games and yet by your own admissions the consoles don't cater for your genre of game. So what's the problem?

Personally, as I lack the available free time to devote to PC games at the moment, my console sees most of my time and why not, I can switch it on and be in game within 40secs, do anything I currently do on my PC, I don't have to worry about whether my hardware can run the game and I don't have constantly moan about DRM.
As for being a mindless console gamer who enjoys the l33t games like CoD4

(not really but it's a good example) I feel the stereotype being plastered around Subsim to be a little offensive and borne of a small mind, but what should I suspect from a PC based forum, oh that's right exactly what I would read from a console based forum. Tit for tat! I don't bracket myself into a PC or Console only choice, why should you be so bigoted to do the same.

Now, moving on. If you are all so keen for the Sim genre to last and have a bright future you should be asking the developers to consider console variations of their titles. Both the PS3 and XBox are capable of running Sims when properly coded and the PS3 does support KEYBOARD & MOUSE input (know what you are talking about please). The large production studios have realised that to make serious money (which in turn boosts the genre) the consoles must be considered when developing games, the Sim market should adapt if they want to survive and be profitable.

Skybird · 08-27-09, 07:08 AM

The wrote and repoprted about the Games convention in cologne, showing a trend towards "femalised" games like the sim People series, and "qactive sports" gaqmes like for the Wii. These are seen as the trendsetters. while brutal games and shooters still are present, they said they are loosing in market shares and are not as dominant anymore as they once have been. Social gaming with fun- and sports-games they claim to be the current thing.

While I see some hints for this being true, I wonder if it really is a valid and objective opbservation - or just PC-wishful thinking. Hard to say. but the trend that more and more girls and women take on games that match their taste cannot be overlooked indeed - it is real. also the trend that gaming in general becomes acceptable for higher age groups and wider social groups in general. and this is especially due to - consoles, like it or not.

stabiz · 08-27-09, 07:15 AM

Racing sims are not doing all bad at the moment, the new massive (and costly) racing training tool iRacing, and soon we will see rFactor 2. (Joy, joy, joy, joy)

Task Force · 08-27-09, 09:20 AM

Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while...

danlisa · 08-27-09, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Task Force

Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while...

Umm, how do you do the math on that?

The PS3 (for example) is available for £230 ($299), now. This console has a planned 10yr life cycle, so around 7yrs left.

How much does a gaming PC cost again? How often do you upgrade a GFX card? How much does that cost? How much does a monitor cost you? Etc......Damn, to keep up with PC games you need a good GFX card every 2 years and that can be £100 to £200 a pop.

Even buying a new console every 8-10yrs, it's cheaper in the long run.

antikristuseke · 08-27-09, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

Umm, how do you do the math on that?

The PS3 (for example) is available for £230 ($299), now. This console has a planned 10yr life cycle, so around 7yrs left.

How much does a gaming PC cost again? How often do you upgrade a GFX card? How much does that cost? How much does a monitor cost you? Etc......Damn, to keep up with PC games you need a good GFX card every 2 years and that can be £100 to £200 a pop.

Even buying a new console every 8-10yrs, it's cheaper in the long run.

No it is not. When you take into account the cost of games, the pc comes off better in the long run and you can sell your left over hardware to recoup more than 60% of the investment in hardware, if you are on a concistent upgrade cycle. The reason why pc games cost less than console games is the fact that consoles have licencing fees for developers, which they obviously delegate to the consumers.

Task Force · 08-27-09, 09:43 AM

and console games have less replay value in my book... I find that alot of console games are just S***.

danlisa · 08-27-09, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

No it is not. When you take into account the cost of games, the pc comes off better in the long run and you can sell your left over hardware to recoup more than 60% of the investment in hardware, if you are on a concistent upgrade cycle. The reason why pc games cost less than console games is the fact that consoles have licencing fees for developers, which they obviously delegate to the consumers.

The disparity between PC & Console Games is not that much, assuming you pay retail upon release. PC games usually retail at £35.99 while Console games retail at £39.99. No big difference there. Also, both media types allow for resale or trade in, so it matters not.

As for hardware, true. But I would contest that you can recoup 60% of your initial outlay on PC hardware. If you are able to recoup that much you are buying the hardware (say GFX card for example) at release, which will cost you a premium and then selling it again within 6 months to ensure there is still demand for it.

Arclight · 08-27-09, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Task Force

Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while...

Nah, you buy a console and stick with it till the end of it's lifecycle. You'll likely upgrade your PC several times in that time, if you want to stay up to date, that is. Doesn't have to be huge upgrades all the time; maybe new memory kit one year, new CPU the next.

It's just that you can do so much more with a PC, so as far as I'm concerned you get more for your money. And of course you typically have better graphics and performance (load times, frame rates if you don't go overboard on IQ).

My current CPU cost as much as a 360 Arcade costs now.

Task Force · 08-27-09, 09:39 AM

lol.. well pcs are more expensive... but you can do a hell of a lot more with one... you can to a report on a PS3, you cant do photoshop and stuff on a console, your cant do alot of things... cause from what I understand consoles are mainly for games....

I myself think consoles are a waste of time... Thats why I gave up on them after the ps2....

danlisa · 08-27-09, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Task Force

lol.. well pcs are more expensive... but you can do a hell of a lot more with one... you can't do a report on a PS3, you cant do photoshop and stuff on a console, your cant do alot of things... cause from what I understand consoles are mainly for games....

YES YOU CAN.

The PS3 can do all of those things.

Letum · 08-27-09, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

...PC exclusive Simulations are not turning out the figures to sustain the market indefinitely.

Is that speculation or do you have some facts to back it up?

stabiz · 08-27-09, 01:34 PM

I thought all simulations were pc exclusive. Cant think of one on console, and dont say Gran Turismo.

pozine · 08-27-09, 02:47 PM

grand turismo 5?

The sims series
Forza Motorsport
Guitar Hero Series
Ghost Recon
NHL Series
FiFA Series
Other Sports game...

No Sims on Xbox?

Raptor1 · 08-27-09, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pozine

grand turismo 5?

The sims series
Forza Motorsport
Guitar Hero Series
Ghost Recon
NHL Series
FiFA Series
Other Sports game...

No Sims on Xbox?

Puh-leeze, those are Simulations about as much as Tom Clancy's HAWX is.

08-27-09, 05:27 AM	#1
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	Like many others here I won't say that the Sim market is dead, yet. Regardless of our beliefs on the subject, developers are in the business to make a profit and PC exclusive Simulations are not turning out the figures to sustain the market indefinitely. TBH with you, the main reason for this is the longevity of these Sim titles and in part the moddability of each Sim, while initially boosting sales, does nothing but hurt the following title in a series. We all live in a disposable society and games are becoming more and more disposable along with it. As such developers and production studios have realised where the money is and are moving over in their droves. For example; the SH series has sold 1.5 million copies in it's lifetime but a single console game will sell that in 1 weekend (if not a single day). Which brings me nicely onto the subject of consoles. For the mature Sim gamers, you lot don't half moan about consoles killing off PC games and yet by your own admissions the consoles don't cater for your genre of game. So what's the problem? Personally, as I lack the available free time to devote to PC games at the moment, my console sees most of my time and why not, I can switch it on and be in game within 40secs, do anything I currently do on my PC, I don't have to worry about whether my hardware can run the game and I don't have constantly moan about DRM. As for being a mindless console gamer who enjoys the l33t games like CoD4 (not really but it's a good example) I feel the stereotype being plastered around Subsim to be a little offensive and borne of a small mind, but what should I suspect from a PC based forum, oh that's right exactly what I would read from a console based forum. Tit for tat! I don't bracket myself into a PC or Console only choice, why should you be so bigoted to do the same. Now, moving on. If you are all so keen for the Sim genre to last and have a bright future you should be asking the developers to consider console variations of their titles. Both the PS3 and XBox are capable of running Sims when properly coded and the PS3 does support KEYBOARD & MOUSE input (know what you are talking about please). The large production studios have realised that to make serious money (which in turn boosts the genre) the consoles must be considered when developing games, the Sim market should adapt if they want to survive and be profitable. __________________

08-27-09, 07:08 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,706 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The wrote and repoprted about the Games convention in cologne, showing a trend towards "femalised" games like the sim People series, and "qactive sports" gaqmes like for the Wii. These are seen as the trendsetters. while brutal games and shooters still are present, they said they are loosing in market shares and are not as dominant anymore as they once have been. Social gaming with fun- and sports-games they claim to be the current thing. While I see some hints for this being true, I wonder if it really is a valid and objective opbservation - or just PC-wishful thinking. Hard to say. but the trend that more and more girls and women take on games that match their taste cannot be overlooked indeed - it is real. also the trend that gaming in general becomes acceptable for higher age groups and wider social groups in general. and this is especially due to - consoles, like it or not. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-27-09, 07:15 AM	#3
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Racing sims are not doing all bad at the moment, the new massive (and costly) racing training tool iRacing, and soon we will see rFactor 2. (Joy, joy, joy, joy) __________________

08-27-09, 09:20 AM	#4
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while... __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

08-27-09, 09:43 AM	#7
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	and console games have less replay value in my book... I find that alot of console games are just S**. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"* Last edited by Task Force; 08-27-09 at 09:54 AM.

08-27-09, 09:39 AM	#10
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	lol.. well pcs are more expensive... but you can do a hell of a lot more with one... you can to a report on a PS3, you cant do photoshop and stuff on a console, your cant do alot of things... cause from what I understand consoles are mainly for games.... I myself think consoles are a waste of time... Thats why I gave up on them after the ps2.... __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

08-27-09, 01:34 PM	#13
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I thought all simulations were pc exclusive. Cant think of one on console, and dont say Gran Turismo. __________________

08-27-09, 02:47 PM	#14
pozine Gunner Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 97 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	grand turismo 5? The sims series Forza Motorsport Guitar Hero Series Ghost Recon NHL Series FiFA Series Other Sports game... No Sims on Xbox? __________________ HELP!! HELP!!