Taxes around the world

[Task Force]

fact is... america and europe are two different places... America does its thing its way... europe does its thing its way...

why europe is concerned what america is doing is beyone me...

[Max2147]

I think the American beef with taxes/government comes from the American reluctance to give the government credit for anything. The recent Craig T Nelson rant summed it up quite nicely (when whining about government spending: "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No.")

The general sense I get is that Americans and Europeans look at taxes from very different perspectives. I'm going to paint with a dangerously broad brush here, but I think it's worth saying. Europeans tend to focus more on what they get out of the government than what they put into it, while Americans tend to focus on what they put into the government instead of what they get out of it. In other words, when Europeans think of government, the first thing they think of are the social programs that the government gives them. The high taxes they have to pay are a secondary issue. Meanwhile, when Americans think of government, the first thing they think of is how much money they're paying the government. We tend to forget about government services that help us out, like Mr. Nelson's food stamps and welfare.

Of course, that isn't true for all Americans and Europeans, but I think the general trend is there.

[Aramike]

I think the American beef with taxes/government comes from the American reluctance to give the government credit for anything. The recent Craig T Nelson rant summed it up quite nicely (when whining about government spending: "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No.")

We're supposed to have a government of the people by the people. Therefore the people should get the credit - not the government.

Also, as a side note, some people including me don't see welfare as helping people necessarily. I believe strongly in the principle behind teaching a man to fish rather than just feeding him a fish.

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by August

Didja ever think that our constant complaining about taxes is the main reason we aren't being raped like you guys?

hahaha

We brits complain a plenty about taxation... don't change the fact we get shafted at every turn - not only with income tax, but VAT, fuel duty, national insurance, and never mind about pensions... (what pensions? unless you're fred goodwin).

We just got out TV licence renewal... it's almost 150 ******* quid! Just to watch television for a year! and all you get to show for is is ****ty programs like 'strictly come dancing' and 'X-factor', or 'britain's got (no) talent'. the ultimate lowest common denominator programming

Utility companies run for the benefit of shareholders and not for the service they're supposed to give, knowing too well that we all have no other choice but to take what is offered because we can't do without gas/electricity/water, so every year the service costs more yet is of a successively lower quality of service... rrrrrrrg!

I'm certain the level of voter apathy here is a direct result of the fact that no matter what we complain about and no matter what is promised by successive governments, everything is more expensive in terms of what we have to pay out and anything that is due to us is worth less year by year.

It's like the ultimate pyramid scheme, only on a national scale

About the only half decent thing about living here is the NHS and even that's a shadow of what it was intended to be at its incept, having been bloated by endless middle management drones and ill informed government initiatives. Leave the running of the NHS to medical professionals like doctors, consultants and nurses, not sodding bean counters ffs.

Don't even get me started on employment, or the despicable lack of it for anyone with more than 2 braincells to rub together.

This last bunch of thieving crooks and liars and their 'opposition parties' all have their heads so deep in the communal trough they are no longer interested in what their job means to the country. The worst kind of politician is a career politician, and they're all we seem to have left these days. So, more pity for the rest of us who aren't privy to inner sanctum of the cathedral of profit, whilst we dress in rags they are flaunting the ermine robes of expense accounts and connections and 'old boys' networks, the sole purpose of which are to keep everything close at hand and away from the batteries of the economy.

soz, got a bit carried away there.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Respenus

http://www.kpmg.com/SiteCollectionDo...urvey_2009.pdf

If I hear ever again an American complain about taxes, I'm going to blow a fuse

Enjoy this pleasant reading material. It is quite informative.

This is because we don't have stupid policies like forced Health Care run by the Damn government. There is a reason we are as strong as we are and as wealthy as we are. Seems some stupid people don't get that.

-S

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by Aramike

We're supposed to have a government of the people by the people. Therefore the people should get the credit - not the government.

Also, as a side note, some people including me don't see welfare as helping people necessarily. I believe strongly in the principle behind teaching a man to fish rather than just feeding him a fish.

The government should get credit when the government does something good, and the people should get credit when the people do something good.

I agree with you on the teaching a man to fish vs. feeding him a fish. But you don't learn to fish instantly, and you need something to eat when you're learning. Welfare should not be used as a long-term solution to a person's problems, but it's still important to have as a short-term way to keep their head above water until they can solve their own problems.

[Aramike]

The government should get credit when the government does something good, and the people should get credit when the people do something good.

But the government is supposed to be the people, so the point is moot.

Besides, the government gets tons of credit when it does well. It's just been very rare these days.

I agree with you on the teaching a man to fish vs. feeding him a fish. But you don't learn to fish instantly, and you need something to eat when you're learning. Welfare should not be used as a long-term solution to a person's problems, but it's still important to have as a short-term way to keep their head above water until they can solve their own problems.

I don't disagree with you at all on this. Unfortunately, though, welfare has become an end unto itself. I have a problem with that.

There is a reason we are as strong as we are and as wealthy as we are. Seems some stupid people don't get that.

The wealth of a nation is measured by counting your assets and deducting the liabilities .
Do the huge liabilities your country has negate the value of all the assets?
If so then you have negative wealth , but some stupid people don't get that.

[August]

Originally Posted by jumpy

soz, got a bit carried away there.

Sorry didn't mean to get you riled up.

[jumpy]

Every tax in the world is the same:

Too high.

[KG_Jag]

In the U.S. self reliance and personal freedom is still (albeit a closer margin in these sad days) valued over being taken care of (on the terms of others) from cradle to grave.

I believe in the wisdom of the individual to make the right decisions in his life without the "wisdom" of the powerful "elite" who "know" what's best for everyone--always connected with the increase/ preservation of their own power. This is especially true when the government is not rewarding bad behavior and saving people from the consequences of their choices.

So give me another historical example of a country who rose so fast in less than seven generations as did the U.S. Plus we did it largely with the citizens that Europe put on "waivers".

Money the government spends/wastes is taken from the people. The people generally spend it much better and creat much better results--both for them and their fellow citizens.

Originally Posted by KG_Jag

So give me another historical example of a country who rose so fast in less than seven generations as did the U.S.

Amen brother! And it wasn't about spreading the wealth around. It was about the Individual!!!!!

[KG_Jag]

Originally Posted by Respenus

Yet do you have a majority of the population which is happy? Are the people, which you Americans so fondly mention, with all their rights; are they truly happy? It is impossible for everyone to be happy (even the idea of happiness is subjective, let's just say it is connected with life in general), yet I believe Europeans do sleep and feel better knowing there is a net, created and fought for by them, which will help them when the laissez-faire will let them down, not by their action or their own volition, yet due to the system itself. The ending statement was adeptly said by Biggles, read his response.

Most Americans are very happy--but are rarely satisfied. We strive for more not only in our lifetimes but from generation to generation.

My grandfather was kicked out of first grade because he could not speak English, but only German. By the way this was done by other Americans who had come from Germany. He never finished high school and started his working life painting outhouses for the Soo Railroad Line.

My dad was the first person in our family to attend (and graduate) from college.

I and two of my brothers are lawyers. Another of my brothers is even more successful in the business world. Both of my sisters are also doing very well. All six of us have college degrees and 5 of the 6 of us have graduate degrees.

This sort of thing happens all the time in the U.S. How common is it in "happy" Europe?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by KG_Jag

How common is it in "happy" Europe?

Come over and see for yourself.