US Marine puts US Congressman in his place.

[Aramike]

First off, you don't know a thing about me.

Wrong. I know exactly what you show me through your writings. Unless you're lying, communicating poorly, etc., that's what I know and the extent of what I know. And that's the position my commentary comes from.

Second off, by no means do right wingers have a monopoly on stupidity. There are responsible Republicans who are rational. If they disagree with health care, bully for them. Only problem is, they seem to be a dying breed. Many Repubs today appear to be plunging to the bottom as fast as they can, to capitalize on the lowest common denominator with rhetoric similar to the BS this guy was spouting.

Judging by the fact that Obama's popularity is waning, and most polls show the nation is heading towards the right, I'm going to suggest that your making a biased statement with no actual basis in fact.

You're entitled to your opinion. Just like me, and my opinion is that you're wrong.

I do not accept that. Holding to that perception opens the door to the notion that the truth value of speech rests more on who is speaking than on what is being said, which this guy took advantage of.

Whether or not you accept it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, no one has a right to have their speech be of any value whatsoever. It's up to people to decide such things. However, people can also decide to respect a certain type of individual with listening a little closer when they speak.

That's rich coming from you. Feigning incomprehension to try and score a cheap point is one of your favorite tricks. I don't use it, but I believe you cannot honestly say the same.

Did you actually read what I wrote? I specifically said that I *DO* comprehend what you're saying, but disagree with it.

I see no mention of his constitutional oath crap. Do you accept it or not? Do I have permission to find it nonsensical?

Dude, its called political rhetoric. From some perspectives, the congressman has not kept his oath. From others, he has. But the bottom line is that it was an opinion, and I can understand why the individual has it (even though I do not agree).

Political rhetoric is about accentuating a point, not making one. So yes, it makes perfect sense in context. I don't agree with him, but it makes sense.

No @#$% Sherlock. Since when does being a member of the Federal government prevent you from talking generally about certain topics? As soon as it provides an opportunity to make political hay, I guess.

Wow, go back and read my point again. You really missed it. Badly.

DING DING DING DING! It's all meaningless semantics, distorting the intention behind the original language to create a talking point. I'm reminded of another Marine, Zell Miller speaking at the 2004 Republican Convention, who got wild applause for criticizing Democrats for referring to the occupation of Iraq, rather than its liberation. It's that kind of pointless macho posturing BS, based on nothing but the distortion of words, that I'm going on about. The fact that this guy pulled that trick using language describing a part of the plan which he would be in favor of, made it even dumber.

Are you kidding? Do you even live in this country? Do you have ANY idea how it works?

The reason the language is being picked over so much is because you have a judiciary that answers to no one. So, while there may be no intent for, say, Death Panels, someone could easily later say that that's what the bill means. A judge could easily then interpret that to be correct, should it be challenged and brought to court. So while the bill specifically doesn't say certain things, it can be (clearly) interpetted in certain ways.

And really, have you even known ANY politician or bureaucrat to not interpret things in the way they WANT them to mean?

Listen to what he actually says. He wasn't talking about the stimulus package, he was talking in part about the National SOCIALIST TAKEOVER OF THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY!1!!!1 Too bad the present day "takeover" began under Bush, and was initiated by die hard free marketers. But hey, what are facts to right wing nuts?

Seriously, you should stop and try to read my points carefully, in context, before you respond. You're not doing yourself any favors.

Read my point again, in the context of what I was responding to. I even made it easy for you, using the "quote" function.

I beg to differ.

Keep begging.

I thought the Bush-Hitler stuff was idiotic back then, just as I think the Obama-Hitler crap is stupid, thank you very much.

Fair enough. To be honest, somehow I doubt that you've expressed such indignation over it (which is actually what I wrote, anyway), but I have no reason to believe that you supported it, either.

To sum it up: if you're against health care because you have reason to believe that it'll be too expensive, or that the government has the anti-Midas touch, or that collective action is inherently wrong, or that it's every American's god given right to have the opportunity to have their coverage dropped at the worst possible time, or that it's a good and righteous thing that the US pays far and away the most for health care as a percentage of GDP while receiving average care, with a sixth of the country having no care at all, then great, we can have a debate.

Too bad you have no idea who you're talking to. I'm not a "right wing nut". In fact, I'm fiercely independant. Furthermore, I have stated, time and time again, that I'm in favor of healthcare reform and even nationalized healthcare. Frankly, I believe we already have a foolish, incredibly inefficient version of that.

However, the Obama plan is simply STUPID. No way around it. I've actually made suggestions to the kind of plan that I think would work in other threads. Obama's plan will not work.

No large nation has efficient nationalized healthcare ... but in my opinion, that doesn't mean it is impossible.

This guy didn't bother with actual reason, though. He just got up there with the same old BS rhetoric which we've heard for months, most of which doesn't even make sense as I've shown, and he got praised for it.

I praise anyone who stands up to elected officials for the right reasons.

By the way, you really should research topics more prior to engaging in debate on them. You DO know why the marine was pissed at Congressman Baird, right? Hint: Google "Baird Brownshirt".

Apparently you feel that your points are so weak, you must buttress them with insults. I initially answered in kind, but then decided to remove them. I'm ending this conversation before you turn it into a flamewar.

Wasn't trying to be insulting, but oh well. Some people don't have thick skin.

And no, my points aren't weak. Judging by your replies, you just never bothered to read them.