Why primary care doctors are fed up

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Considering that if he is like my GP, he will only see each patient for about 15 minutes max. At $55.00 per patient, if he can keep the waiting room filled that is $220.00 per hour.

And that does not include the kickbacks he gets from tests, prescriptions, and the stuff they push to sell you.

Not exactly poverty wages.

Forgive me for not crying a river for this guy.

It is the PAs and the NPs that collect the data, document the information, and perform the treatment. The doctor pops his head in the examination room for a few moments and gives out with the highly educated, highly trained medical council -- "let's try this drug. See me in three weeks and we can try something else".

Gee 8 years of medical school and I get "let's try this drug'?

YMMV I guess. I've always been very happy with my GP. Very consultative, makes an effort to make sure I understand what's happening. But the fact is that he invested just as much time, energy, and money into his medical career (and any medical career requires gobs and gobs of that stuff) as say an orthopaedic surgeon. And makes half as much money while working more hours. If he wanted to make more money, his incentive would be to get people in and out the door as fast as possible and prescribe tons of drugs from drug companies that have bribed him enough. But my GP clearly hasn't gone this route.

I don't think my GP should make more money, I just think other specialities should make less to make sure GP will always attract a good amount of young doctors.

PS: I actually listened to a radio program about this a month ago. Here it is if you have any interest in it:
http://www.opb.org/thinkoutloud/show...-in-the-house/

PD

[Task Force]

pfff.... for some of the crap doctors do they dont deserve the money... most of them are quacks anyway... just want to give everyone a pill to fix everything...

(please note im not talking about all doctors...)

[roman2440]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I disagree, I see no reason to label him whiney just because he feels he is underpaid. He's a doctor. They do not grow on trees, not everyone has the stuff to do it. Try letting your mechanic install a heart valve on you

Doctors should be highly paid.

Even doctors have a ceiling for their value.

I've worked with a lot of guys that have been underpaid. I've seen a lot of different approaches to whining about pay. The language this doctor is using is deja vu. The kind of language he is using I've only ever seen used by guys that only think about money and who over value themselves. People who truely deserve a pay increase don't speak in the same manner.

[Task Force]

anyway... I thought doctors were surspose to be concerned about there paitents, not lineing there pockets...

Not to mention the extraordinary cost of med school...

Which taxpayers subsidise .
Both the medical students and the medical schools themselves get federal grants.
Don't ya just hate it when someone else is taking your money.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by roman2440

Even doctors have a ceiling for their value.

I've worked with a lot of guys that have been underpaid. I've seen a lot of different approaches to whining about pay. The language this doctor is using is deja vu. The kind of language he is using I've only ever seen used by guys that only think about money and who over value themselves. People who truely deserve a pay increase don't speak in the same manner.

Nothing should have a ceiling for its value.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Considering that if he is like my GP, he will only see each patient for about 15 minutes max. At $55.00 per patient, if he can keep the waiting room filled that is $220.00 per hour.

And that does not include the kickbacks he gets from tests, prescriptions, and the stuff they push to sell you.

Not exactly poverty wages.

Forgive me for not crying a river for this guy.

It is the PAs and the NPs that collect the data, document the information, and perform the treatment. The doctor pops his head in the examination room for a few moments and gives out with the highly educated, highly trained medical council -- "let's try this drug. See me in three weeks and we can try something else".

Gee 8 years of medical school and I get "let's try this drug'?

That's not my doctor

Originally Posted by Task Force

anyway... I thought doctors were surspose to be concerned about there paitents, not lineing there pockets...

Oh sure, and you and me work at our jobs because we like to see the company succeed, not for our paycheck

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

That's not my doctor

lol, you have a doc thats awnser to everything isnt PILLS!!!! PILLS!!!!:rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

The base problem here is the exact opposite of the problem that led to the founding of this country. Then the saying was "no taxation without representation." In the early US only taxpayers could vote. You had to have personal or real property taxed by the Federal Government in order to cast that vote. You owned part of the shop, you got a voice in how to run it.

Now we have something much more dangerous than taxation without representation. We have representation without taxation. 50% of the public pay no federal income taxes at all. The top 1% of wage earners, that approximately 1.6 million people who earn more than approximately $360,000 pay more dollars into the federal till than the bottom 95% of wage earners! Yes, you read that correctly. It's been true since 2006.

Now, does the majority, which pays little or no taxes, want more services, which they will pay nothing for? Do they have any problem with tax increases, which do not affect them? Do they have any incentive to vote in a way that a responsible citizen who owns a piece of the action should vote? Or are they inclined just to loot and plunder those evil rich people, that top 1%?

Doesn't matter. The problem is self correcting. That top 1%, a lousy 1.6 million people have plenty of assets. They employ 75% of the working people in the USA. Unlike us, they participate in the economy voluntarily. You see, they need not make an income at all. They can well afford to close the doors, fire their workers, buy a boat and take off for five years while we either just die or regain our senses.

Can you see the danger of putting all of our fates in the hands of less than 1% of the people? Can you see the awesome power they posess, even as they are not using it yet to defend themselves?

If you want to see this insanity corrected, there is a tool available that will fix it. It's called the Fair Tax, a national sales tax which would take the place of the federal income tax, social security deductions and FICA taxes. Through the use of a prebate, it would guarantee that the truly poor don't pay a penny in taxes. And EVERYBODY, except the truly needy who could not afford to pay, would be a taxpayer.

If they vote to raise taxes, they vote to raise taxes on themselves! Isn't that fair? If they vote to fund a national health care program, they do it in full realization that the buck stops with them. I bet they'd be darned sure to get their money's worth.

Folks, nothing is worth more than what you pay for it and the majority of Americans are freeloading off the feds and voting to seize more money from the achievers who are responsible for what little prosperity they enjoy. But it's fashionable to hate these achievers, and refer to them as the "more fortunate" who need to pay more and more.

How much more than 50% of the federal budget would be fair for them to pay? Should the top 1% be made to pay MORE than the bottom 95% of wage earners? How much more? And how do you propose to keep this profound injustice from destroying this land we love?

Democracy has been reduced to two cats and a mouse voting over what's for dinner. I think we know the ending to that scene.

THAT's the underlying problem, more important and more dangerous than terrorists, national health care, green industry, global warming, pollution and CIA interrogation practices combined. By the time we realize it's there, this will destroy all we have.

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Oh sure, and you and me work at our jobs because we like to see the company succeed, not for our paycheck

yea.... but in the medical buisness id think the paitents should come first... if I was a doctor I would... Its only right...

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

50% of the public pay no federal income taxes at all.

Sure about that number? Seems a bit high. Got a citation?

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Sure about that number? Seems a bit high. Got a citation?

It's only slightly high. I think the number is 41%.

But still, RR's points are spot-on.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Although, I do admit that I fear a national sales tax would result in an out-of-control black market, required a bureacracy and enforcement agency rivaling the IRS...

I'm personally in favor of a flat tax.

[Rockin Robbins]

The number is correct and from the IRS. In 2006 the top 1% for the first time paid more federal taxes than the bottom 95% and it's gotten worse every year. The story was on national news just last week and I checked it out.

Why aren't we told the truth? Uploading now. It'll be a spreadsheet from the IRS with reference URL so everyone can check it out for themself. Now the 41% isn't unreasonable on the face of it.

Look at it this way, the top 1% pays slightly more than the bottom 95%. That means the rest is paid by the 96th through 98th percentile, a group paying cruelly disproportionate taxes themselves. If the 41% is correct that would mean the top 1% pays 41%, the bottom 95% pays 41% and that would leave 18% to be paid by the 96th through 98th percentile. Without doing any fancy math, I'd say that sounds about right.

But I'm going to provide all the numbers and the means to confirm that they are 100% unsensationalized truth. Just give me a couple of minutes to upload.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Task Force

yea.... but in the medical buisness id think the paitents should come first... if I was a doctor I would... Its only right...

You definitely should become a doctor. You can start tomorrow, let us know which medical schools you are applying to.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Aramike

It's only slightly high. I think the number is 41%.

But still, RR's points are spot-on.

That number includes people who pay federal tax during the year but get it all back. That is not quite the same as not paying any tax as the federal government had the use of the money interest free during the year.

It is important to differentiate between people who don't file and people who get a refund of the taxes they paid all year.

This total includes those who pay no tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the full amount of the tax paid or more.

If you use the numbers on that site, the percentage of people who pay no federal income tax at all is about 11% 15M/136M

11% may still be high to some people but it is not quite the same as saying the 40-50% of people don't pay income taxes.