It will be the end of the Democrats as a Party

Onkel Neal · 08-09-09, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapt Z

Like the time my medical insurance company refused to pay for my new born daughter's stay in the hospital. She was born 2 months premature. They said her stay in intensive care was 'unnecessary'.

Like the time the same insurance company offered to pay $2.50 for a $3,500.00+ hospital bill for treatment of my daughter by her doctor who was a participating physician in their plan.

On and on and on. And these were all different hospitals. And we had insurance!

What insurance company would that be?

Re: the video, I'm not sure how strong this guy's point it. Our clinics and doctor offices are usually closed on weekends too (aren't they?) and our e-rooms are packed, with insane long waits too -- mainly because the hospital will not refuse care to illegal aliens and people with no insurance and who refuse to pay--the e-room is their "family doctor".

What we need is to go to having state hospitals manned by volunteer profressionals and funded by people who are so gung ho about universal health care for those who will not pay, and leave the private hospitals for people who pay and for professionals who want to be compensated properly. Let's see how that works

mookiemookie · 08-09-09, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

mainly because the hospital will not refuse care to illegal aliens and people with no insurance and who refuse to pay--the e-room is their "family doctor".

While this may be true, one misconception I keep seeing is that if you go to the emergency room with no insurance they don't just treat you and say "No insurance? Oh well, I guess you don't have to pay! See ya!" They do bill you, and it's quite pricey. I know from experience.

SUBMAN1 · 08-09-09, 11:57 AM

I've been preaching this on this forum for so many years. I've seen their health care and honestly, I think these guys were treated better than even what I've seen. The nurses must have liked them.

This kind of health care in the states is the very LAST thing Americans want. It's terrible. My mother-in-law would be alive today I think if they had our health care, but on the Canadian system, she is now no longer with us.

Anyone that wants this universal plan in my opinion is a complete idiot.

-S

Fish · 08-09-09, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

My mother-in-law would be alive today I think if they had our health care, but on the Canadian system, she is now no longer with us.

Anyone that wants this universal plan in my opinion is a complete idiot.

-S

Yeah?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Li...d_Factbook.png

SteamWake · 08-09-09, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

While this may be true, one misconception I keep seeing is that if you go to the emergency room with no insurance they don't just treat you and say "No insurance? Oh well, I guess you don't have to pay! See ya!" They do bill you, and it's quite pricey. I know from experience.

The point is that you do recieve care and quite often 'cash' paying clients pay a smaller bill.

They bill you in good faith more or less 'hoping' that you will pay your debt.

Platapus · 08-09-09, 12:31 PM

They also follow up as The Frau's "adult" daughter found out. The kid thought that because she did not have insurance that she could just go to the ER and "forget" to pay the bill.

She has to appear in court later this month where she will most likely have her future wages garnished to pay for her ER bill.

So yeah, the hospitals are going after people who don't pay their bills.. and good for them. There is no more "hope they will pay" They are going after the non-payers.

SteamWake · 08-09-09, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

They also follow up as The Frau's "adult" daughter found out. The kid thought that because she did not have insurance that she could just go to the ER and "forget" to pay the bill.

She has to appear in court later this month where she will most likely have her future wages garnished to pay for her ER bill.

So yeah, the hospitals are going after people who don't pay their bills.. and good for them. There is no more "hope they will pay" They are going after the non-payers.

But in the case of an illegal ailen the phrase "Blood from a stone" comes to mind.

mookiemookie · 08-09-09, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

But in the case of an illegal ailen the phrase "Blood from a stone" comes to mind.

People bleeding to death in the street is a better alternative?

SteamWake · 08-09-09, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

People bleeding to death in the street is a better alternative?

Now how do you get here from there?

I was saying that care is given with the 'hope' that they will be payed, as opposed to turning them away and letting them bleed to death in the street.

Honestly

Platapus · 08-09-09, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

People bleeding to death in the street is a better alternative?

that is a real good point.

It is easy to type real tough on an internet forum. But will the American people have the stomach to see people literally dying in the gutter. Not locked away where they can die without upsetting little Junior or Sally, but right there in the street.

Or walking past lines of people begging for money to be able to buy the medication for their children or spouse.

That is what will happen if this country adopts the attitude of "if you can't afford healthcare tough". People won't suddenly stop getting sick/injured.

The result will be sick and injured people not getting medical care.

What will happen if a father has a very sick child and can't afford health care.... and he has a gun? What would you do if your daughter was dying and you could not afford health care and the country was telling you "hey father, we can't care for your dying daughter but we are sure you recognize that it is better for everyone else if your daughter dies."? I bet many of us would do "anything" to save our daughter/son.

What would be the cost to our society then?

I don't know what the solution is. I don't know if the proposed health plans are the solution either. But I am confident that the solution is not "no cash, no medical care". There has to be a better way than just letting people die in the gutter. I hope we have come a long way from the 19th century in this.

Onkel Neal · 08-09-09, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

While this may be true, one misconception I keep seeing is that if you go to the emergency room with no insurance they don't just treat you and say "No insurance? Oh well, I guess you don't have to pay! See ya!" They do bill you, and it's quite pricey. I know from experience.

Ah, but it's only pricey if you actually fork over the $$$

Otherwise, it amounts to the same thing as "No insurance? Oh well, I guess you don't have to pay! See ya!"

Unless things have changed and they can garnish your wages to pay for it. Can they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Anyone that wants this universal plan in my opinion is a complete idiot.

-S

Maybe but this discussion will go a lot smoother if you don't start calling people idiots. You know there are people waiting to throw that right back and raise the ante.

Aramike · 08-09-09, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Unless things have changed and they can garnish your wages to pay for it. Can they?

Sure they can garnish after getting a court judgement ... but someone needs a job with an actual paycheck to get their pay docked.

mookiemookie · 08-09-09, 03:57 PM

They can and will send the collection agencies after you, that's for sure.

Onkel Neal · 08-09-09, 03:57 PM

Hmm...then things have changed, I took some renters to court a few years back, won the case, paid the $30 for a judgment and that was the end of it. There was no way to make them pay their debt owed.

But again, collection agencies, judgements, probably don't have much of an impact.

.

Skybird · 08-09-09, 04:38 PM

For a change, see how the internal American civil war II about Obama's health care plans is perceived from some other civilised places in the West. To us, it looks like a dirty war both by regional politicians and republicans in general in order to damage the president - no matter the cost, and - pure hysteria. This German article describes the impression it leaves with us over here. It's a mud-throwing like I have not seen any since longer time. Again: not so much the reform is the trigger, but attacking it is only a tool - a tool to do maximum damage to Obama for the sake of damaging Obama.

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...yes#reqdrucken

The American democracy, despite it's obvious flaws in design that after WWII more and more got exploited and sold the nation to lobbyism and an economic elite hijacking it alltogether, nevertheless once was one of only few examples in the world that was admired by people in all the world for it's political culture and inner mechanisms - and all in all it was rightfully admired, becasue after adding all the positves and negatives in the end a relatively high ammount of justice was achieved. But what is happening there now in destroying the presidency at no matter a cost for the political culture, and with all mean and dirty tools available - that is not that once admired example people looked up to. This it is not.

08-09-09, 11:57 AM	#3
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've been preaching this on this forum for so many years. I've seen their health care and honestly, I think these guys were treated better than even what I've seen. The nurses must have liked them. This kind of health care in the states is the very LAST thing Americans want. It's terrible. My mother-in-law would be alive today I think if they had our health care, but on the Canadian system, she is now no longer with us. Anyone that wants this universal plan in my opinion is a complete idiot. -S __________________

08-09-09, 12:31 PM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,373 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	They also follow up as The Frau's "adult" daughter found out. The kid thought that because she did not have insurance that she could just go to the ER and "forget" to pay the bill. She has to appear in court later this month where she will most likely have her future wages garnished to pay for her ER bill. So yeah, the hospitals are going after people who don't pay their bills.. and good for them. There is no more "hope they will pay" They are going after the non-payers. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-09-09, 03:57 PM	#13
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	They can and will send the collection agencies after you, that's for sure. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

08-09-09, 03:57 PM	#14
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Hmm...then things have changed, I took some renters to court a few years back, won the case, paid the $30 for a judgment and that was the end of it. There was no way to make them pay their debt owed. But again, collection agencies, judgements, probably don't have much of an impact. . __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

08-09-09, 04:38 PM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	For a change, see how the internal American civil war II about Obama's health care plans is perceived from some other civilised places in the West. To us, it looks like a dirty war both by regional politicians and republicans in general *in order to damage the president -* no matter the cost, and - pure hysteria. This German article describes the impression it leaves with us over here. It's a mud-throwing like I have not seen any since longer time. Again: not so much the reform is the trigger, but attacking it is only a tool - a tool to do maximum damage to Obama for the sake of damaging Obama. http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...yes#reqdrucken The American democracy, despite it's obvious flaws in design that after WWII more and more got exploited and sold the nation to lobbyism and an economic elite hijacking it alltogether, nevertheless once was one of only few examples in the world that was admired by people in all the world for it's political culture and inner mechanisms - and all in all it was rightfully admired, becasue after adding all the positves and negatives in the end a relatively high ammount of justice was achieved. But what is happening there now in destroying the presidency at no matter a cost for the political culture, and with all mean and dirty tools available - that is not that once admired example people looked up to. This it is not. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.