[req] Fleet boat engine room.

Sailor Steve · 08-02-09, 02:26 PM

I've never been interested in visiting the engine room myself, but that's not a criticism, just a difference of opinion.

Remember that there was a time when Tomi himself didn't know how to do this stuff, and if you really really want to see it, you might consider starting to learn the techniques yourself.

Armistead · 08-03-09, 04:27 PM

I think Ducimas added two rooms in 1.8. Think he pulled them from SH3 and reworked them.

Rockin Robbins · 08-04-09, 05:18 AM

I would accept other rooms if they had NO effect whatever on gameplay. Excessive polygons, dynamic shadows, gratituitous lighting effects, too many objects, who knows how many dragons are out there to ruin our ability to hide, hunt and kill?

SH4 is a balancing act that already loads up the graphics capability more than shootem-ups like Half Life: Source (where I get 63 frames per second with all settings wide open), Unreal Tournament III (about 90 fps) and other so-called demanding games. I get about 25 fps in SH4 and don't have room for eyecandy that does not contribute to good gameplay.

I'll bet the whole reason the SH4 interior is less detailed than the SH3 interior has to do with the necessary compromise between graphics quality and gameplay quality. Environmental mods have taken us very close to the edge before and had to be ratcheted back.

Producing detailed engine and torpedo rooms and then integrating them into the game will be a very long and difficult process. How will a prospective modder feel if he invests six months into a project that ends up not being able to be used because it chokes our computers, rendering SH4 into a useless static display?

vanjast · 08-06-09, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

How will a prospective modder feel if he invests six months into a project that ends up not being able to be used because it chokes our computers, rendering SH4 into a useless static display?

Hmm... SH4 does choke most PCs with high detail mode anyway.
In fact you can have any room as detailed as you want it (graphics settings), as you will only be seeing one scene at a time.. either the outside world or a single interior room for rendering.

Highbury · 08-06-09, 04:00 PM

If it was made as a mod then it is your choice to install it or not.

Alot of people have systems now that can take most anything the SH4 engine throws at it. Mine is not top of the line but good enough that very few things in SH4 can give me a noticeable frames hit. A full harbor in FOTRS gives me the same frames as open ocean.

Akula4745 · 08-06-09, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've never been interested in visiting the engine room myself, but that's not a criticism, just a difference of opinion.

I have to agree with Steve... I might go in and look around one time, but how much time would I really spend there? And it would not be easy at all for someone to create this room... sad as it is to say, the same would be true for a torpedo room... how much time would I spend there after I looked around once and marveled at the craftsmanship of the creator? I don't see the payoff being worth the effort.

Rockin Robbins · 08-06-09, 04:32 PM

Well, that's why I would think that rather then cramp the style of someone wanting to put max effort into a hyper-detailed sub interior, the better strategy would be a stand-alone application.

Like I said, Ducimus is a one man team who will use something if somebody else makes it and it proves to have NO bad effects on gameplay.

The RFB guys are solidly against gratuitous eyecandy, as they are convinced that it will kill gameplay. Only the success of Tomi's engine room in SH4 will convince them to start to go down this road. Experts within the RFB circle, not on the actual team, people I trust implicitly, say that detail of that magnitude would cripple gameplay, not just slow it down.

There are many aspects of SH4 that impact gameplay whether or not they are presently displayed on the screen. One major improvement of U-Boat Missions, which has been nearly forgotten, is that the number of ships in the whole ocean were continuously tracked whether or not they would ever have any impact on you whatever in 1.4. Patch 1.5 let the game disregard ships out of sensor range as virtual targets, not needing to be tracked until they are in sensor range. They are then generated from nothing and only then begin to load up your memory and clock cycles.

Taking this as an example, there are many objects in SH4 that suck performance from the game when you are not looking at them at all. It would be a horrible thing if this were true of engine room detail.

The name of the game is compromise. Compromise means willingly giving up one kind of quality for another. A stand-alone application would have no such limitation, or at least much less of it.

gimpy117 · 08-06-09, 07:42 PM

yes I agree..if they can get the frame rates squared away that one thing...I just wanted to get the ball rolling...I guess i'll have to wait a bit longer..oh well

08-02-09, 02:26 PM	#1
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I've never been interested in visiting the engine room myself, but that's not a criticism, just a difference of opinion. Remember that there was a time when Tomi himself didn't know how to do this stuff, and if you really really want to see it, you might consider starting to learn the techniques yourself. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-04-09, 05:18 AM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I would accept other rooms if they had NO effect whatever on gameplay. Excessive polygons, dynamic shadows, gratituitous lighting effects, too many objects, who knows how many dragons are out there to ruin our ability to hide, hunt and kill? SH4 is a balancing act that already loads up the graphics capability more than shootem-ups like Half Life: Source (where I get 63 frames per second with all settings wide open), Unreal Tournament III (about 90 fps) and other so-called demanding games. I get about 25 fps in SH4 and don't have room for eyecandy that does not contribute to good gameplay. I'll bet the whole reason the SH4 interior is less detailed than the SH3 interior has to do with the necessary compromise between graphics quality and gameplay quality. Environmental mods have taken us very close to the edge before and had to be ratcheted back. Producing detailed engine and torpedo rooms and then integrating them into the game will be a very long and difficult process. How will a prospective modder feel if he invests six months into a project that ends up not being able to be used because it chokes our computers, rendering SH4 into a useless static display? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-06-09, 04:32 PM	#7
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well, that's why I would think that rather then cramp the style of someone wanting to put max effort into a hyper-detailed sub interior, the better strategy would be a stand-alone application. Like I said, Ducimus is a one man team who will use something if somebody else makes it and it proves to have NO bad effects on gameplay. The RFB guys are solidly against gratuitous eyecandy, as they are convinced that it will kill gameplay. Only the success of Tomi's engine room in SH4 will convince them to start to go down this road. Experts within the RFB circle, not on the actual team, people I trust implicitly, say that detail of that magnitude would cripple gameplay, not just slow it down. There are many aspects of SH4 that impact gameplay whether or not they are presently displayed on the screen. One major improvement of U-Boat Missions, which has been nearly forgotten, is that the number of ships in the whole ocean were continuously tracked whether or not they would ever have any impact on you whatever in 1.4. Patch 1.5 let the game disregard ships out of sensor range as virtual targets, not needing to be tracked until they are in sensor range. They are then generated from nothing and only then begin to load up your memory and clock cycles. Taking this as an example, there are many objects in SH4 that suck performance from the game when you are not looking at them at all. It would be a horrible thing if this were true of engine room detail. The name of the game is compromise. Compromise means willingly giving up one kind of quality for another. A stand-alone application would have no such limitation, or at least much less of it. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-06-09, 07:42 PM	#8
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	yes I agree..if they can get the frame rates squared away that one thing...I just wanted to get the ball rolling...I guess i'll have to wait a bit longer..oh well __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

08-03-09, 04:27 PM	#2
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I think Ducimas added two rooms in 1.8. Think he pulled them from SH3 and reworked them.

08-06-09, 04:00 PM	#5
Highbury The Old Man Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: 51.557, -0.102 Posts: 1,311 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	If it was made as a mod then it is your choice to install it or not. Alot of people have systems now that can take most anything the SH4 engine throws at it. Mine is not top of the line but good enough that very few things in SH4 can give me a noticeable frames hit. A full harbor in FOTRS gives me the same frames as open ocean.