There is something wrong in DG

Task Force · 07-15-09, 04:10 PM

Ive had similar issues in jutland... I fire at a distroyer with the hevyest BB I have in my fleet and ocationaly i get an un killable distroyer... or something... but my ships get slaughtered...

alexsmith · 07-15-09, 05:32 PM

Just to eliminate possible interaction of so called "Dark Gods" I played the same situation for three times - with absolutely the same result! Computer's advantage is obvious! And inexplainable...

I have an idea... Maybe in DG 1.5 computer uses guns from Jutland?

jdkbph · 07-18-09, 10:04 PM

There's no doubt in my mind that the the AI has been given... "advantages"... to offset it's tactical weaknesses. But then what game does not have such weaknesses? And how else would you expect a developer to play balance the game?

That of course is the common wisdom. It's obviously intended to thwart those who enjoy exploiting AI weaknesses regardless of historical or technical considerations.

Unfortunately the developer does not seem to realize that most of the folks who play this game (not counting the "competitive" multi-players) are bothered by this type of thing and find no enjoyment in the challenge of developing and implementing ahistorical tactics to defeat an AI with such advantages.

JD

alexsmith · 07-19-09, 10:51 AM

Your're absolutely right - nothing is unusuall in AI's "cheating"! But what's wrong about it in DG? First, mr. Bullethead as representative of developers made the statement that "computer does not cheat". This is probably not correct. At least there is a strong feeling that it's not. If SES confess about computer's cheating - we could discuss this futher - how to improve that point of game etc. But SES declines discussion!

Second, IHMO - in DG results depend on random numbers TOO MUCH. It means at the same situation you may achive ABSOLUTELY different results and these results are almost UNAFFECTED by player's actions! This is terrible for game - even if this is historicaly true. Player learns to load each time something goes wrong - and at the end he loads almost every minute and repeat-repeat unlikely situations trying to outrun random generator.

Third, it's very difficult to get a pleasure from naval game if your ships just doesn't hit while enemy is hitting constantly

At last it's a game about gunfire! How should I suppose to play if my ships just can't hit no matter what I do???

There are a lot of possibilities which can be made to reduce computer's disadvantages in logic and strategy. At least there should be wide range of tactical tricks which can greately affect the results of battle! Ok, let computer have more powerfull guns - but give player a way to overrun this advantage! But in DG computer successfully hits regarding of sun, wind, distance and sometimes - even ship's positions! Yesterday I had a duel with Kassuga and Nisshing - which have 8" guns at back only. They go strictly to my ships in position none of back guns could fire - but Tsesarevich got several 203mm shells

This is just amazing!!!

The most important question is just either SES want's to improve game futher or not. If it does - we may probably propose different ways and indicate some narrow points. Sometimes it helps. If it doen't - I probably spent $50 for nothing...

alexsmith · 07-19-09, 10:59 AM

At last there is a statement from game's manual:

Quote:

In practical terms, assuming equal levels of accuracy, this means guns of 150mm or larger are almost interchangeable. They do operate very differently in the game, but their end effects are similar.

Do you know that in 1.5 armored ships almost completely invulnerable for 6" guns? I made a special research concerning that

How should I suppose to play if manual contains false statements?

alexsmith · 07-19-09, 11:05 AM

I appologize for the mistake I made in my suggestion according to Nisshin and Kassuga - Nisshin does have 8" front guns, so my example was quite incorrect... Sorry

07-15-09, 04:10 PM	#1
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Ive had similar issues in jutland... I fire at a distroyer with the hevyest BB I have in my fleet and ocationaly i get an un killable distroyer... or something... but my ships get slaughtered... __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

07-18-09, 10:04 PM	#3
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	There's no doubt in my mind that the the AI has been given... "advantages"... to offset it's tactical weaknesses. But then what game does not have such weaknesses? And how else would you expect a developer to play balance the game? That of course is the common wisdom. It's obviously intended to thwart those who enjoy exploiting AI weaknesses regardless of historical or technical considerations. Unfortunately the developer does not seem to realize that most of the folks who play this game (not counting the "competitive" multi-players) are bothered by this type of thing and find no enjoyment in the challenge of developing and implementing ahistorical tactics to defeat an AI with such advantages. JD Last edited by jdkbph; 07-18-09 at 10:45 PM.

07-15-09, 05:32 PM	#2
alexsmith Loader Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 81 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Just to eliminate possible interaction of so called "Dark Gods" I played the same situation for three times - with absolutely the same result! Computer's advantage is obvious! And inexplainable... I have an idea... Maybe in DG 1.5 computer uses guns from Jutland?

07-19-09, 10:51 AM	#4
alexsmith Loader Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 81 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Your're absolutely right - nothing is unusuall in AI's "cheating"! But what's wrong about it in DG? First, mr. Bullethead as representative of developers made the statement that "computer does not cheat". This is probably not correct. At least there is a strong feeling that it's not. If SES confess about computer's cheating - we could discuss this futher - how to improve that point of game etc. But SES declines discussion! Second, IHMO - in DG results depend on random numbers TOO MUCH. It means at the same situation you may achive ABSOLUTELY different results and these results are almost UNAFFECTED by player's actions! This is terrible for game - even if this is historicaly true. Player learns to load each time something goes wrong - and at the end he loads almost every minute and repeat-repeat unlikely situations trying to outrun random generator. Third, it's very difficult to get a pleasure from naval game if your ships just doesn't hit while enemy is hitting constantly At last it's a game about gunfire! How should I suppose to play if my ships just can't hit no matter what I do??? There are a lot of possibilities which can be made to reduce computer's disadvantages in logic and strategy. At least there should be wide range of tactical tricks which can greately affect the results of battle! Ok, let computer have more powerfull guns - but give player a way to overrun this advantage! But in DG computer successfully hits regarding of sun, wind, distance and sometimes - even ship's positions! Yesterday I had a duel with Kassuga and Nisshing - which have 8" guns at back only. They go strictly to my ships in position none of back guns could fire - but Tsesarevich got several 203mm shells This is just amazing!!! The most important question is just either SES want's to improve game futher or not. If it does - we may probably propose different ways and indicate some narrow points. Sometimes it helps. If it doen't - I probably spent $50 for nothing...

07-19-09, 11:05 AM	#6
alexsmith Loader Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 81 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I appologize for the mistake I made in my suggestion according to Nisshin and Kassuga - Nisshin does have 8" front guns, so my example was quite incorrect... Sorry