The failure of DW

[FERdeBOER]

None of the poll options.

In my opinion the problems are 2:

1- Post developing. A very little at first and none then... since Neal leaves the project we are even ignored...

2- Modding. Both the tools to mod the game as the permission to do that. Almost all of the best-selling and more played games can be modded: Half-Life, Far Cry, TotalWar series, SH, racing games...
LwAmi put the game to a level that we would never have had if we where already waiting for a new patch.
I hope the AT and RA mods will be finished soon; I'm sure they will bring new life to the game.

[Dr.Sid]

As for 'bad programming' .. I did not said I consider DW programming bad. I sad I chose that option. I think DW programming quality is just standard. Nothing special. It has bug sure, but those could be easily fixed, if somebody decided to do so.

As for their representative here. Yes, he was here. And he was exactly that only person who I think was working on DW after release.

[PeriscopeDepth]

I just don't think there's too many people who enjoy staring at 2D sensors waiting for a 50 Hz line...setting up a manual solution...and then watching the progress of your weapons from 2D sensors.

PD

[XabbaRus]

Jamie left for EA long ago. He was replaced by Frying Tiger who quite frankly I got the impression he didn't really give a damn.

Jamie would try to answer your question as soon as he could here and on SCS's forum. Frying Tiger didn't seem to bother.

I haven't had DW installed for a long time.

[Nexus7]

If i was a programmer, I would give a damn about your comments.

[CapitanPiluso]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I just don't think there's too many people who enjoy staring at 2D sensors waiting for a 50 Hz line...setting up a manual solution...and then watching the progress of your weapons from 2D sensors.

PD

That's exactly what I think

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I just don't think there's too many people who enjoy staring at 2D sensors waiting for a 50 Hz line...setting up a manual solution...and then watching the progress of your weapons from 2D sensors.

PD

Might be true....on the other hand DW gives you so much choice (air/ship/sup) and variety.

In a typical WWII sub sim you hunt convoys most time...makes fun for some time but I'm just bored of it.

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I just don't think there's too many people who enjoy staring at 2D sensors waiting for a 50 Hz line...setting up a manual solution...and then watching the progress of your weapons from 2D sensors.

Why is staring at 3d station any better ? In fact, in SH3 I spend most of the time on the map, which is 2D too. Sure, the boats are pretty. Weather and explosions, cool. But that simply can't keep you playing it. In fact I too consider SH series much more boring then DW.

On the other hand .. SH is sexy .. that's why people TRY it. DW is not. I know dozens of people who played SH series, but never heard of DW.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Why is staring at 3d station any better ? In fact, in SH3 I spend most of the time on the map, which is 2D too. Sure, the boats are pretty. Weather and explosions, cool. But that simply can't keep you playing it. In fact I too consider SH series much more boring then DW.

On the other hand .. SH is sexy .. that's why people TRY it. DW is not. I know dozens of people who played SH series, but never heard of DW.

Yeah thats something that many old time players forget. In the early days Simulations for the pc were the showcase for cutting edge graphics. Every kind of simulation tried to push the envelop. Remember Microprose ? They didn't devolp just flight simulators, they spanned from air, to surface to subsurface and each of their titles pushed the edge not only of gameplay but also on graphics for their time.
SH I for instance is a 2d game, and still feels more "polished" than DW. Don't even get me started on Sierra Fast Attack, another pureley 2d sub simulator that carries more carisma than DW.
That has to get people thinking.
The more "rough" a game is, the bigger the entry barrier to try it.
A simulation for pc has to capture as i said in other threads the whole experience. Saying just who cares about graphics its the gameplay that matters shows that that person has no knowledge of the history of pc games, and just what make a simulation tick.
100% gameplay 0 graphics : a game that few nerds will play -> failure if you spend big bucks on it.
80% gameplay, 20 % graphics : a game that says hey I'm here try me out.
-> captures the hard core market and a percentage of the casual market. It could be defined as a relative success.
Dw was 60% gameplay, and 10 graphics (recycled from an 10 year old engine), the rest 30% is the unifished state of the game -> utter failure in the causal market, a relative success in the hard core market but not enough to keep the game going.

[Pillar]

We're still playing it, fresh mods are out, it works great.... it failed?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Pillar

We're still playing it, fresh mods are out, it works great.... it failed?

Well RA is not released yet and if it comes out in 2009 that will be 4 years after the intial release of DW on battlefront.
Its a little to late to capture the casual market right now.
Don't you think so ?

I see DW heading the same way as Falcon 4, a game that will survive only due to long time players. The inability to caputure any kind of mass market appeal will mean that in the long run this game will die (I assume its a natural thing).
The only thing that could revive it and bring new players to the table, would be for an independent software house to "lease" the source code to DW for x years, and start doing a heavy graphics update. And I mean heavy.
Then fix whats still broken in the navalsimegine, and finally don't try to sue the modders that extend the game.
Who knows, by that time maybe cina will be in open naval confrontation with taiwan and the us, so you can even use real events to market the new "cold war" sim.

[Nexus7]

How comes that SC survived long enought to be patched to the pretty good 1.08 version ?

And that was 2D sensors as well... and I speculate that the effort/cost to produce it was superior than the one to produce DW, as DW takes a lot from SC...

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

How comes that SC survived long enought to be patched to the pretty good 1.08 version ?

And that was 2D sensors as well... and I speculate that the effort/cost to produce it was superior than the one to produce DW, as DW takes a lot from SC...

Because if I'm not mistaken Sub Command had as publisher EA, one of the largest if not largest publisher for pc games at that time. So funding was no problem I suppose. And even with that kind of commercial support you still had to wait some time for the patch to arrive.

[Nexus7]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Because if I'm not mistaken Sub Command had as publisher EA, one of the largest if not largest publisher for pc games at that time. So funding was no problem I suppose. And even with that kind of commercial support you still had to wait some time for the patch to arrive.

Is there any rough numbers on how much those games have sold ?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

Is there any rough numbers on how much those games have sold ?

I have no idea.
But I think its safe to say that SC sold more than DW.