U-Boat Ops mod?

[Salvadoreno]

and this is going to be released with the next rub or is it stand alone? Or will RUB eventually incorporate it? It should be with the next RUB IMO

[Egan]

Originally Posted by Salvadoreno

and this is going to be released with the next rub or is it stand alone? Or will RUB eventually incorporate it? It should be with the next RUB IMO

It will be in RUB.

[Rubini]

Egan wrote:

Yes, traffic was a lot less commonplace than many people around here are willing to believe. I fear this is gonna end up going down the same route as the RUB deck-gun mod...

Look, A couple of tugs here and there - fine. An occasional minesweeper - fine - - - a destroyer here and there, ok. but not piles of it by any amount.

My understanding is that, far from utilising destroyers, most daily tasks like escorts in and out of base were undertaken by minesweepers - not destroyers or anything larger. And, certainly by late war, the Never-very impressive- German surface fleet was being sunk at berth and not going anywhere. Of course, there are exceptions.

Our prime motivation is to improve the bit when you are actually at sea. everything else, like ports, are secondry.

I would like to say again that I understand and agree with your motivations on the realistic way and the focus on "at sea" matter. But at no moment I made a critical on your work or for Rub team. I'm not also asking for you to include this mod to Ops Mod. I'm only here answering to some people that have made questions about traffic mod in this thread and in the right and respectful way trying to learn more about uboat war. And to finish this discussion now I call that you and some few others stop to kidding with peoples who have another opinion...

Thanks,

Rubini.

[CCIP]

Rubini -

I think you're taking Egan's critique as more harsh than what he actually meant.

The main criticisms he has, which I would generally agree with, is 1) the overwhelming amount of traffic; 2) The type of traffic (this is the bigger one).

As far as 2) goes, I would generally agree, actually. Germany was indeed desperately short of certain types of ships, and you would not see many of them just routinely cruising in port. Same may apply to the airplanes. Consider that in 1943, when U-boat killer groups appeared in Biscay, the Germans could do nothing to help a damaged boat under their attack except to send their (most impressive!) group of 3 small torpedo boats, the only surface force they could apply there. A flight of Ju-88 heavy fighters was also sent, but ran out of fuel and turned back.

So, I think the mod gives an excellent sense of immersion in a very visual sense, and it looks gorgeous - but I think realism-oriented players are a little weary of some of the features.

Anyways, again, I am sure that some will be glad to see your mod merged with the operations SCR on your own accord, and I most encourage you to do so - and I'm not by any means saying that you should change the mod's composition.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Rubini -

I think you're taking Egan's critique as more harsh than what he actually meant.

The main criticisms he has, which I would generally agree with, is 1) the overwhelming amount of traffic; 2) The type of traffic (this is the bigger one).

As far as 2) goes, I would generally agree, actually. Germany was indeed desperately short of certain types of ships, and you would not see many of them just routinely cruising in port. Same may apply to the airplanes. Consider that in 1943, when U-boat killer groups appeared in Biscay, the Germans could do nothing to help a damaged boat under their attack except to send their (most impressive!) group of 3 small torpedo boats, the only surface force they could apply there. A flight of Ju-88 heavy fighters was also sent, but ran out of fuel and turned back.

So, I think the mod gives an excellent sense of immersion in a very visual sense, and it looks gorgeous - but I think realism-oriented players are a little weary of some of the features.

Anyways, again, I am sure that some will be glad to see your mod merged with the operations SCR on your own accord, and I most encourage you to do so - and I'm not by any means saying that you should change the mod's composition.

Yes. Sorry if you took offence, Rubini. I tend to be a bit more narky than I should be after work. I wasn't trying to put your mod down. It was more that the question kept coming up even though I thought it had been answered. I really wasn't trying to have a go at you.

I am not against harbour traffic in any way, just a bit wary of certain things.

[Rubini]

CCIP,

Thanks for your reply. It's a constructive one. It's about this type of answer that we need (all of us, modders or not). I have all interest on make a more realistic traffic possible but we need more feedbacks and good comments to improve the mods. My mod like all others is not finished yet. Making changes in the mod in the right way is a very good thing not a problem.
I'm finishing a new version and I will look for more tunning in rush places, dates and type of ships in it.

Thanks again and sorry for this off topic matter.

Rubini.

[Rubini]

Egan,

I have another problem as I don't understand english very well!

Yes, like I said I agree to you. It's only a matter about how we said something or not. And I'm also awaiting the Ops Mod because it's a major improvement to SH3 community.

Greetings,

Rubini.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Egan,

I have another problem as I don't understand english very well!

Yes, like I said I agree to you. It's only a matter about how we said something or not. And I'm also awaiting the Ops Mod because it's a major improvement to SH3 community.

Greetings,

Rubini.

I'm a native speaker and I don't understand most of it....

[Shadow9216]

I think Egan may have the vision here-

I fear this is gonna end up going down the same route as the RUB deck-gun mod

After reading that debate, which got quite heated in parts, I think there were two distinct camps...this may be headed the same way:

1) The "realism" folks
2) The "casual" folks

I don't agree with the labelling, but it seems to be somewhat self-imposed by those reaching for the "ultimate" subsim, with everything as historic as possible. An admirable goal, and definitely one requiring a great deal of work.

Folks who like the "eye candy" or "fun factor", those who play with less than 100% realism (probably less than 50% truth be told) enjoy being able to load a game, shoot the gun, down some planes, and torpedo ships. They don't have the time, inclination, or skill to pursue the "maximum theoretical realism".

Personally, I don't see a problem with either camp- each group of people gets to play the way they want to, how they want to, with whom they want to- that's democracy in action :P As long as neither group is being demeaned for its preferences, everything is fine.

The main problem, as I see it, is that there is a large talent pool in the "realism" camp and a small talent pool in the "casual" group. Thus, folks are forced to join one side or the other. Jason's great mod is a prime example- he's made the convoys more realistic, put in more nations, but also souped up the escorts and reduced the single traffic. If you want a shot at a Norwegian tanker, or a 40-ship convoy, you have to accept that the escorts are gonna pound on you, and you won't see much single traffic.

Rubini's mod, on the other hand, looks great and adds a lot of "feel" to the game...some folks might venture to say it adds realism, since the ports are now busy. Those who play for utmost accuracy aren't too enthused with the mod from a historic point of view, and don't wish to incorporate it into their style of play.

It would be great if there was some middle ground, some way to allow the modders to pick and choose what stays and what goes. A way to take some of Rubini's traffic, and Jason's convoys, but keep the deck gun and the single merchants. In another thread I raised the possibility of altering the code in the cfg files to change the color of the altered/added parts. That way users could custom design the mod to their liking. The feedback I got was that wasn't feasible.

The only solution I can see in the interim, is for those who wish for a historically accurate but casual game to come up with their own mod.

I'm going to attempt that for myself, blending the Improved Convoys AND Harbor Traffic with my own Torch Mod to see what that comes up with. I'll you guys know how that works.

Jason, Rubini, you guys rock! I've enjoyed helping you out and will be happy to assist you in the future if you need it. Egan, your Ops Mod looks killer and I can't wait to try it...but since I can't wait, I'm going to try my own addition, and hopefully it'll allow some of the "casual" players to move beyond the stock campaign without sacrificing their fun factor...me, I'm kinda in between both groups.

[joea]

Agree 100% Shadow9216, I play with a mix of both "realistic" and "casual" mods...I like the Harbour Mod and the repaints cause they look darn nice. I like the convoys, real plotting, airpower and such mods for the realism and challenge.

I mix a few iron man rules, but the ones I like and viola, the Battle of the Atlantic as I like it (joke)

No really we all can play as we like...I guess til the day we would ever get DC2.

[KodiakPA]

I have to agree with Shadow on this as well. I love the eye candy and realisim but I just don't have the time to play that way. When I don't have time I just want to run and gun. The modders in both camps do great work and my thanks go out to them for all of it. I can't wait for the ops mod as I would like to try my hand at some of the historical events.

Originally Posted by Egan

The problem isn't so much friendly ships. The problem is the amount. it is over the top IMO, It feels like a motorway during rush-hour.

I kind of like it; for the first time it feels like a busy naval base. On the other hand, it's easy enough to use the editor to reduce the number to a more agreeable level.

I'm just bummed I can't download the new version with U-boats. My internet was shut off due to lack of funds (again!) and I'm back to posting from the library.

[pampanito]

May I ask if the Ops mod has something on merchant ship names?

It would be great to know that you have sunk the Greek ship 'VASILISSA MONICA' instead of an anonymous C2. I don't expect people beginning to whine 'that ship did not exist' or 'that was not a coastal vessel', I just think of having a name picked up at random from a list of some hundred vessels.

Forget it if this sounds silly...

[CCIP]

That's not something we, or any other modders, can really do at the moment

This feature seems to have been planned in the game, but was never finished (as some ship types do have a list of names in their config).

Observer's Ship Name mod, which goes with the Historical Tonnage mod, changes them to more generic "Large Merchant", "Medium Tanker", and so on. It's technically better than the default game, since sinking C2's all the time is far from realistic - only one C2 was sunk during the whole war!

[Catfish]

Hello,

CCIP, you wrote:
" ... since sinking C2's all the time is far from realistic - only one C2 was sunk during the whole war! ... "

And i know why, last time i tried i pumped five torpedoes in a C2 until it sank :rotfl:

Greetings,
Catfish