Train Crash in Washington

[Max2147]

I don't know how Metro signaling works. They run on dedicated tracks, so it could be very different than what you find on a normal train line.

The local media have not mentioned any system like the one bookworm described, so I suspect it doesn't exist.

From the article I posted: "Metro's automated system is built around electronic relays on the trains and buried along the track that allow onboard computers to control speeds and stop trains from getting too close to one another."

I'm not sure if that system is in addition to or in lieu of traditional signaling.

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by Max2147

I don't know how Metro signaling works. They run on dedicated tracks, so it could be very different than what you find on a normal train line.

I would be surprised to find that much of a difference if there are drivers involved, With the couple of automatic systems I know of, they still have visual signals next to the track, regardless of any warning system on the train.

From the article I posted: "Metro's automated system is built around electronic relays on the trains and buried along the track that allow onboard computers to control speeds and stop trains from getting too close to one another."

I'm not sure if that system is in addition to or in lieu of traditional signaling.

Sounds like in addition to traditional signaling.

These trains are supposed to have all that except that one of these were 'older' models and did not have the data loggers installed. For whatever reason the ABS failed.

Same thing happened here with the waterfall accident. They had been installed but were still been tested and could be switched off, and many had been. (can't be done now!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_rail_accident

I know form some of the drivers and guards who had worked with this set G7(train) that it had a bad reputation. It would apply power despite brake applications and dropping the dead man's handle/foot peddle.

[SteamWake]

Track Sensors Fail Tests During Investigation of D.C. Train Crash

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529067,00.html

Begs the question how long have they been in disrepair and why wasent it noticed before?

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529067,00.html

Begs the question how long have they been in disrepair and why wasent it noticed before?

No money, wrong people.

Metro has no dedicated funding source. They have to go begging to DC, MD, VA, and the federal government every year for a new bag of money. Besides revenue from tickets, they don't have any guaranteed funding beyond one year.

On top of that, the money that Metro does get is badly used. Big expansions and highly-visible projects get a lot more attention (and thus more money) from those who fund Metro, so those get priority instead of ho-hum issues like maintenance and updating obsolete systems. The result is obsolete equipment and deferred maintenance.

Also, the people who run Metro are elected officials, not transportation experts. They really don't know how to run a mass transit system. Worse, they (like most elected officials) bristle at criticism. That's very bad when it's the NTSB making the criticisms and recommendations.

[bookworm_020]

From the sounds of what you said, Max2147, I do hope that a guaranteed funding stream is one of the recommendations that the NTSB make in there findings.

It's a great thing to build it, but it needs maintenance. It may not get votes for you, but it won't loose any by avoiding having things go wrong!

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

From the sounds of what you said, Max2147, I do hope that a guaranteed funding stream is one of the recommendations that the NTSB make in there findings.

It's a great thing to build it, but it needs maintenance. It may not get votes for you, but it won't loose any by avoiding having things go wrong!

Yup more taxes for an already failing system ... perfect

Can you say Amtrack?

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Yup more taxes for an already failing system ... perfect

Can you say Amtrack?

What would you rather do, shut it down? That's the only other option. The current state of affairs will become unsafe fairly soon.

DC NEEDS Metro. The streets are clogged past capacity, and there isn't room to build any more. Metro is an integral part of the city's transit system. It's also vital to the federal government, since lots of government employees ride it to work. So it's natural that the federal government should pay to keep it running.

Every other public transportation system has a dedicated funding system, usually from the state or city level. Metro doesn't have a state to turn to, and the city of DC doesn't have the money, largely because most of the city's prime real estate doesn't bring in any tax money (the federal government doesn't pay taxes to the District).

Should the money be accompanied by changes in how Metro is run? Absolutely. But the money needs to come.

Also, Amtrak is successful on a regional level. The NE Corridor is quite profitable on its own, and it's probably the best form of intercity transport in the northeast. From door to door it's faster than flying or driving. The same goes for other regional networks.

If Congress would give Amtrak the money to build dedicated tracks with its own right of way, the system will be very successful. Congress already builds and maintains roads for the trucking/bus industry, so why shouldn't they build railroads for Amtrak?

Amtrak's losses come from its long-distance routes. The government money basically subsidizes those routes and those routes alone. Congress makes Amtrak keep them because they provide services to a lot of small communities in the middle of nowhere. So in effect, they're basically just a railroad version of the Essential Air Service program, where the federal government subsidizes airlines who provide services to small cities that can't sustain profitable air service.

Every form of transportation in the US, be it rail, sea, road, or air relies on money from the federal government. So why do people only complain about the money rail gets?

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Yup more taxes for an already failing system ... perfect

Can you say Amtrack?

If structured well and open and accountable practices are used it won't be too bad. It doesn't need to be a big increase, just a guaranteed amount so they know what they have to work with and what needs to be done.

It's hard to live pay check to pay check if you don't know if your getting one or getting what you have been promised.