"Obama is acting like Bush"

[Frame57]

This is aperfect example of the (some) muslim mindset. There is no pleasing them. Try being nice to them and you will die nice.

[mookiemookie]

His economic policies and the advice he's getting from Turbo Tax Timmy and Larry Summers is very Bush-esque.

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by Frame57

This is aperfect example of the (some) muslim mindset. There is no pleasing them. Try being nice to them and you will die nice.

I think the vast majority of Muslims, and even a majority of those in Iran, would be offended by the comparison to Ahmadinejad.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Max2147

I think the vast majority of Muslims, and even a majority of those in Iran, would be offended by the comparison to Ahmadinejad.

Don't put your money on that. There is no evidence that Ahmadinejadh has not gotten a majority in this time's elections, and he got that in last time'S elections, and maybe you underesitmate the widespreaded conservatism of Muslims in Algeria, Turkey, Iran, Egypt - of these countries I can speak due to personal impressions from not just short stays. The Western assumption that socalled moderate Islam is the real Islam and that socalled extremist Islam is just a deformation and a distraction from the rule, is wrong, and a Western self-deception. Islam is an extreme fundamentalist, totalitarian ideology by it'S most natural essence and content. So do not be mislead. Regarding Iran, I said it from the beginning on: there probably has been some fraud, to be sure that Ahmadinejadh would win for sure, but I strongly assume he would have won anyway, even without fraud.

[Aramike]

What Obama failed to realize is that the people he thought he could "talk" to aren't interested in talking at all - they only want concessions. Concessions that the West would be unwise to give.

It's sad that we in the US elected a president who was so hopelessly naive about foreign policy and so dangerously irresponsible on domestic fiscal matters.

[nikimcbee]

Oh, I thought he was at the Ranch wearing cowboy boots and clearing brush.

Wait, now that would be a sight.

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Don't put your money on that. There is no evidence that Ahmadinejadh has not gotten a majority in this time's elections, and he got that in last time'S elections, and maybe you underesitmate the widespreaded conservatism of Muslims in Algeria, Turkey, Iran, Egypt - of these countries I can speak due to personal impressions from not just short stays. The Western assumption that socalled moderate Islam is the real Islam and that socalled extremist Islam is just a deformation and a distraction from the rule, is wrong, and a Western self-deception. Islam is an extreme fundamentalist, totalitarian ideology by it'S most natural essence and content. So do not be mislead. Regarding Iran, I said it from the beginning on: there probably has been some fraud, to be sure that Ahmadinejadh would win for sure, but I strongly assume he would have won anyway, even without fraud.

Just because somebody is a very conservative Muslim doesn't mean they like Ahmadinejad. He's hardly a spokesman for the religion.

Saying that conservative Muslims think like Ahmadinejad and like him would be like saying that all conservative Christians around the world liked George Bush, which simply isn't true.

[Buddahaid]

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, all have their people who use it as an excuse to be sh*ty to others. Spin the wheel and get a prize.

Buddahaid

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, all have their people who use it as an excuse to be sh*ty to others. Spin the wheel and get a prize.

Buddahaid

You need to pervert the sermon on the mountain or other preachings by Jesus and must ignore him in order to behave sh*tty to others, to use your words.

You need to pervert Muhammad and be disobedient to him in order to behave tolerant and respectful to other cultures and relgions.

Either this tells oyu something, or it doesn't. The Quran is on the level of the Old Testament, and stayed there. but the Bible has a New Testament as well - and that is very different to the old one. Quran has no parrallel to that.

If christianity would have gotten stuck with the old testament only, it would be a problem for all mankind today, too. And in fundamentalist Christian communities that take the old testament serious and read the whole bible literally anyway, you see that being the case indeed. And the long since gone past of the churches saw them acting inhumane and barbaric too - in violation of Jesus
preachings, not in obedience to his teachings.

Never forget where the Quran comes from: it is the collection of speeches that Muhammad made to justify himself and to motivate and fire up his followers to follow him into the fights and battles he brought upon others (almost 70 wars and predatory raids he waged in his life as prohet) to subjugate them, and make himself unavailable to criticism of follwers who would risk death since criticism of the leader was equal to religious heresy. That the dead have to be buried the same day, also comes from this: to prevent Muhammad's followers to think about the latest bloodshed and aggression when the dead are too long on their minds. Get the bodies out of sight as soon as possible, therefore. Tell people not to mourn the dead.

Now compare that with lets say the sermon on the mountain. How many wars have Jesus authorised? How many men has he slain himself? How many predatory raids did he ordered? How many genocides (like Muhammad in Medina) has he unleashed? Was Jesus a murderer and bandit like muhammad? A conqueror and warmonger? Say, how many caravans has Jesus robbed before he started preaching, and how many of his followers had to flee him in order to save their lives from his wrath?

It is very ignorrant to compare these two books or persons with each other and indicate they are essentially the same. You could as well compare Mother Theresa with Jack the Ripper.

Originally Posted by Skybird

but the Bible has a New Testament as well - and that is very different to the old one.

So? There still is an old testament that the fundi-christians can fall back to. And for you to draw paralles between the old testament and quran, that's just like, your opinion, man.

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Never forget where the Quran comes from: it is the collection of speeches that Muhammad made to justify himself and to motivate and fire up his followers to follow him into the fights and battles he brought upon others (almost 70 wars and predatory raids he waged in his life as prohet) to subjugate them, and make himself unavailable to criticism of follwers who would risk death since criticism of the leader was equal to religious heresy.

You're half right. The Koran is indeed a collection of Muhammad's justifications for his own actions, but he was much more than a military leader.

He got his start as the peaceful arbiter of disputes in Medina. He unified the Arab tribes that had constantly fought among themselves before he came along. He was a brilliant political leader. And yes, he was a military leader as well - quite an effective one too.

The variety of roles he played in his life is the reason behind one of the Koran's most defining features - it's inconsistency. All religious texts contradict themselves every once in a while, but the Koran does it more than most. As Muhammad's life, his role in his society, and his needs changed, his teachings changed. Sometimes peaceful coexistence and tolerance were the order of the day, sometimes all-out war was the order of the day. As a result, the teachings in the Koran can be used to justify a wide variety of actions, many of which are contradictory.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You need to pervert the sermon on the mountain or other preachings by Jesus and must ignore him in order to behave sh*tty to others, to use your words.

You need to pervert Muhammad and be disobedient to him in order to behave tolerant and respectful to other cultures and relgions.


Now compare that with lets say the sermon on the mountain. How many wars have Jesus authorised? How many men has he slain himself? How many predatory raids did he ordered? How many genocides (like Muhammad in Medina) has he unleashed? Was Jesus a murderer and bandit like muhammad? A conqueror and warmonger? Say, how many caravans has Jesus robbed before he started preaching, and how many of his followers had to flee him in order to save their lives from his wrath?

That would seem to be my point. I said people, not Messiahs.

Buddahaid

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

but the Bible has a New Testament as well - and that is very different to the old one.

Yeah, but when the OT turns out to be fraud, where does that let the NT? let

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Was Jesus a murderer and bandit like muhammad? A conqueror and warmonger?

Uh... he conquered Death, Skybird. Jeez.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Frame57

This is aperfect example of the (some) muslim EXTREMIST mindset. There is no pleasing them. Try being nice to them and you will die nice.

Fixed for you