Train Crash in Washington

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Max2147

The driver on the Red Line train engaged the emergency brakes: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062300653.html

The NTSB said there was evidence on the tracks that the brakes had indeed been used, so it looks like it was just too late. Given the issues I mentioned before that would have obstructed the driver's vision (curve, bridge, shadows, chain link fence), it's not really surprising.

A lot of Metro's dirty laundry is also coming out for everybody to see. The NTSB has been on Metro's case a lot over safety issues, but Metro doesn't have a dedicated funding source, so they don't have the money to implement changes.

Again are there no signals either trackside or in cab? In a train if you have to wait till you 'see' an obsticle its already too late.

[Max2147]

I don't know how Metro signaling works. They run on dedicated tracks, so it could be very different than what you find on a normal train line.

The local media have not mentioned any system like the one bookworm described, so I suspect it doesn't exist.

From the article I posted: "Metro's automated system is built around electronic relays on the trains and buried along the track that allow onboard computers to control speeds and stop trains from getting too close to one another."

I'm not sure if that system is in addition to or in lieu of traditional signaling.

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by Max2147

I don't know how Metro signaling works. They run on dedicated tracks, so it could be very different than what you find on a normal train line.

I would be surprised to find that much of a difference if there are drivers involved, With the couple of automatic systems I know of, they still have visual signals next to the track, regardless of any warning system on the train.

From the article I posted: "Metro's automated system is built around electronic relays on the trains and buried along the track that allow onboard computers to control speeds and stop trains from getting too close to one another."

I'm not sure if that system is in addition to or in lieu of traditional signaling.

Sounds like in addition to traditional signaling.

These trains are supposed to have all that except that one of these were 'older' models and did not have the data loggers installed. For whatever reason the ABS failed.

Same thing happened here with the waterfall accident. They had been installed but were still been tested and could be switched off, and many had been. (can't be done now!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_rail_accident

I know form some of the drivers and guards who had worked with this set G7(train) that it had a bad reputation. It would apply power despite brake applications and dropping the dead man's handle/foot peddle.

[SteamWake]

Track Sensors Fail Tests During Investigation of D.C. Train Crash

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529067,00.html

Begs the question how long have they been in disrepair and why wasent it noticed before?

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529067,00.html

Begs the question how long have they been in disrepair and why wasent it noticed before?

No money, wrong people.

Metro has no dedicated funding source. They have to go begging to DC, MD, VA, and the federal government every year for a new bag of money. Besides revenue from tickets, they don't have any guaranteed funding beyond one year.

On top of that, the money that Metro does get is badly used. Big expansions and highly-visible projects get a lot more attention (and thus more money) from those who fund Metro, so those get priority instead of ho-hum issues like maintenance and updating obsolete systems. The result is obsolete equipment and deferred maintenance.

Also, the people who run Metro are elected officials, not transportation experts. They really don't know how to run a mass transit system. Worse, they (like most elected officials) bristle at criticism. That's very bad when it's the NTSB making the criticisms and recommendations.

[bookworm_020]

From the sounds of what you said, Max2147, I do hope that a guaranteed funding stream is one of the recommendations that the NTSB make in there findings.

It's a great thing to build it, but it needs maintenance. It may not get votes for you, but it won't loose any by avoiding having things go wrong!

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

From the sounds of what you said, Max2147, I do hope that a guaranteed funding stream is one of the recommendations that the NTSB make in there findings.

It's a great thing to build it, but it needs maintenance. It may not get votes for you, but it won't loose any by avoiding having things go wrong!

Yup more taxes for an already failing system ... perfect

Can you say Amtrack?