DG1.5 - the opening attack

[alexsmith]

When I play for Russians, I usually lost only Pallada through first jap attack - I know guys who were able to save it too. As Japanese I drowned four or five lights cruisers - which is far enough to win the complete game.

Yet I didn't try to play for Japanese in 1.5 - not finished Russian company - so can't say. Still think this is quite similar...

[jdkbph]

Can you say how you managed that result playing the IJN side?

For instance...

Did you maintain the default headings and keep the speed low (10 knots I think) to avoid detection, or speed up to close the range more quickly?

Did you maintain the starting formations and relative positions or did you manuever your divisions independently? If the latter, what did you do?

How close did you approach before turning to open the arcs for your torpedo tubes? At what range did you actually launch torpedoes?

Did you rely on the standard "torpedo free" order for the entire force, or did you issue specific targeting orders?

Thanks in advance....

JD

[alexsmith]

Again - my experience in torpedding Russian ship is only from 1.0 version - don't know how it would be in 1.5

But in 1.0 I didn't find any difficulties to hit immovable ship - even from margin distance. Sometimes more save/load tactics help Especially when your dumb miners don't throw torpedoes as expected - look at this like at the bug

Can your please tell - what is going wrong when you play? You can't get close enough to release torpedoes? Or they miss? Or what? Hitting a moving defending ship with torpedo is sometimes a complex task - but stalled ship should be easy targets, shouldn't they?

I usually target every DD individually - as they are not smart enough to attack in division. The point is to track target in fire range for a some time - to allow miners to prepare torpedoes. And the other problem - despite that they miss too often - you may push an enemy ship with 4 or 5 torpedoes none of which is exploding or leaves too less damage. In this situation save/load often helps

[mike_espo]

I remember playing this scenario a few years ago. The Japs with their TBD attack. Playing the Russians, I lost a cruiser and one BB was damaged for a couple of months. I think this was historic.

[Bullethead]

This is a tough scenario for the IJN. The problem is that if you get in close enough to launch torps, or if you hang around to lauch a lot of torps, you're going to lose some or many DDs. The historical results of only 3 hits and no IJN losses was, IIRC, due to the Russians waking up and shooting furiously, which made most of the IJN DDs stay too far away to hit anything, but most of them weren't hit, either. I could be wrong, but I think the only IJN torp hits came early on, while they still had at least some surprise.

The key to this battle is how long it takes the Russians to spot the IJN. The Russians only sound GQ and start counting down their surprise timers AFTER 1 ship spots an IJN DD. Thus, the closer the IJN can get before being spotted, the better for them.

An important part of remaining invisible is the speed of the IJN DDs. The faster they go, they easier they are to see. Coal-burning DDs and TBs of their era had very short funnels so at high power they had a lot of incomplete combustion in the boilers. This hot, unburned gas would burst into flames as it left the funnel, lighting up the ship. This is why the IJN DDs start out at slow speed, and why the AI keeps them slow until they're spotted.

Being end-on to the enemy also makes you harder to see. So when I play the IJN, what I normally do is turn the flotillas in succession parallel to the Russian line, then turn them together to make the approach at 10 knots or even 8 in line abreast. Once I get about 1200m from the Russians (assuming I haven't yet been spotted), I turn them all together back parallel to the Russians, launch, then turn together and withdraw while accelerating to top speed. This allows all the DDs to start running away at once instead of the tail-end charlies being stuck in murder range while the leaders run. And of course each DD can launch at a different Russian.

The important targets for the IJN are the cruisers on the outer, most vulnerable row: Askold, Boyarin, and Novik. Sinking Russian BBs and the slower cruisers isn't very important in this battle because your main units can usually deal with them. If you go for the Russian BBs, you're going to lose most of your DDs because you have to get in deep and won't be able to get out before you start taking lots of fire.

However, even sinking the Russian cruisers isn't THAT critical at this stage, and isn't worth losing a lot of DDs over. So if the Russians spot you early on the way in, just break off the attack and go home without launching.

[alexsmith]

Originally Posted by Bullethead

However, even sinking the Russian cruisers isn't THAT critical at this stage, and isn't worth losing a lot of DDs over. So if the Russians spot you early on the way in, just break off the attack and go home without launching.

Let me please disagree with you The more light cruisers Japan could sink during the first surprise attack - the more easily they can win! Because hunting down fast light cruisers is most vital task for IJN to win whole campaing. If most of the Russian cruisers speeding more than 20 knots are destroyed - the goal is achieved - because other's may be beaten almost easily with major IJN BB forces. And what to DD's - I actually see no point to save them at all - never they will be helpful during the game after first attack. Sink down full prepared cruiser even in a night attack is a trick - I think Also don't forget than your DD's dont' always throw torpedoes when you may expect...

[Bullethead]

Originally Posted by alexsmith

Let me please disagree with you The more light cruisers Japan could sink during the first surprise attack - the more easily they can win!

Quite true. However, sometimes easy isn't as fun as challenging, it takes a long time for PA to fall even with total command of the seas, and I find DDs quite useful for many tasks. For instance, they're among the few IJN units that can lay mines. Besides, you never know when a big fleet action is going to go haywire on you, and then you need your DDs to stave off pursuit. 2PacRon is coming, regardless of what happens to PA. So, when I play the IJN, given the choice, I'll conserve my DDs and have to sweat out hunting down the Russian cruisers while waiting for PA to fall.