Nazi symbols and "immersion": boundaries?

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Akula4745

Pray tell what, FW?

Let NEAL STEVENS the owner of this website do a poll for 30 days so a broad numbership can vote.

No posting. Just 1 vote. And end this once and for all.


Simple and Final.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Let NEAL STEVENS the owner of this website do a poll for 30 days so a broad numbership can vote.

No posting. Just 1 vote. And end this once and for all.


Simple and Final.

Sounds like a plan.

[Highbury]

But a vote on what? If swastikas will be allowed on the forums? What about mods containing swastikas? What about the Rising Sun.. what about the asinine objectors we are sure to have that will say the <insert your choice of flag or symbol here> is offensive?

Do we have a vote for each issue?

The truth is, it is a non-issue. What we mod into our own games is up to us, nobody else has to see it nor should they care. As for what goes on the forums, (this debate DID start over someone having a swastika in a recruiting poster as a sig) if you think someone's sig or post is in bad taste then report it. Let those who run the site decide that. They are smart people, I trust them to make a good choice. I also know that if I object to their decision it is a gaming forum.. not real life...

[razark]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Let NEAL STEVENS the owner of this website do a poll for 30 days so a broad numbership can vote.

Sounds good to me. The thought had crossed my mind as well. Unless Neal wants to make a declaration.

Razark

[sunvalleyslim]

Can't say I've seen any pro nazism posted here.....Not that it has, just haven't seen any. We are all here to simulate War and Submarines. I have grown up here in the U.S. seeing the Nazi Symbols. I have always thought the German Uniforms were some of the best looking. I think the Greman Nazi Flag was a beautiful design.
However I have never believed what Hilter and Nazi Germany did was right. I am only here in my own home and computer simulating what it was to be a U-Boat Kapt. To me if you have a problem with the symbols of a long ago defeated country maybe you shouldn't play the game simply because you are simulating death and destruction.......I don't think SH3 is going to make a bunch of NeoNazis out of us......I think the sanity of players here is far greater than kids playing "GTA".....merely MHO

[Armistead]

This is so silly.

Someone needs to make a politically correct German sub....and be creative....just use smiley faces.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Armistead

This is so silly.

Someone needs to make a politically correct German sub....and be creative....just use smiley faces.

I still vote for teddy bears.

Look, voting on right and wrong IS just plain silly. I don't seek to restrict anybody's behavior, just to set the table on how we'll think about these things. This is a good group, not in need of set rules, which will always have some kind of defect or quibbling point. Oftentimes the rule is much worse than the problem it seeks to address.

I don't see a large quantity of questionable signatures or posts or attitudes here. The Grey Wolves, for instance on one of their GWX4 preview videos, chose to put a pawprint on their German flag. In other instances they have used swastikas, but clearly in historically appropriate ways.

But democracy doesn't work for right and wrong. Democracy is two cats and a mouse voting over what's for dinner. Right and wrong is established by authority, which alone can protect the rights of minorities.

If the lawmaking authority is popularly elected, the government is called a republic: the best form of government so far devised. Democracy sucks. It would suck here. Better to let Neal make up his mind and make a rule than have a silly poll of self-interest and call it an informed and responsible vote.

For myself, I'm not asking for any new rules. All I want is for people to think about how they look when they paint themselves red and black with strange angular symbols used in the past for systematic genocide and intimidation. I want them to think about how they wish to be viewed.

I do not wish to require them to make the right decision.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Armistead

This is so silly.

Someone needs to make a politically correct German sub....and be creative....just use smiley faces.

Groovy man...

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by sunvalleyslim

I have always thought the German Uniforms were some of the best looking.

Me too. Hugo Boss designed them.

[Joe S]

When I was a young child, say 6 or 8 years old , the sight of the swastika would bring a wave of anxiety over me. It was associated with Hitler and the Nazis and all the evil that they did as I learned from my parents and what I saw on TV. My interest in WWII ultimately led to me collecting World War Two militaria, including Third Reich swords, medals, etc. Now, the sight of the swastika no longer results in the emotional reaction that I once had. Occasionally, however, I get a relapse of that reaction and it is amazing how that sense of fear or dread can still reappear. At any rate, this is an individual choice. If you are offended by the sight of the Hakenkreuz then by all means dont use it. If it does not offend you, then download it and use it if you want to. As long as you do not wear it publicly or flaunt it in someone else's face, I dont think its anybody elses business. I also build model planes and tanks, etc, and see nothing at all wrong with putting swastika decals on a model where historically accurate.

We all have to be sensitive to those who lost everything due to the Nazis and have some respect for the victims of their hatred. The publishers of the sim obviously did not want the use of the Swastica to be an issue so they left it out, which is exactly what I would have done.

One more comment, a great many books on the subject state that U-boat crews who were captured and interrogated were almost always described as fanatical Nazis. I dont know that I believe that they all were fanatical Nazis, but that is how the British apparently viewed them. Joe S

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Joe S

One more comment, a great many books on the subject state that U-boat crews who were captured and interrogated were almost always described as fanatical Nazis. I dont know that I believe that they all were fanatical Nazis, but that is how the British apparently viewed them. Joe S

Of course they said that. It's much easier to garner public support for your war when you paint the bad guys as inhuman monsters.

[Rockin Robbins]

Was it Jimbuna who quoted a section of a captured German crew interrogation by the British? It was hilarious! The British had already figured out what sort of comic book martinets the German Crew was and just stuffed the real people into their already prepared mold. They needed a lot of forcing to make them fit, but what of it!

They especially made light of the crew's girlie pictures and racy magazines. As if every British sub didn't have the same thing going on! (after all, how else would they know where the stuff was hidden hehe) But no, the German crew was especially crude and had literature of no cultural value whatever (sniff, sniff). Monty Python had a lot of truth in it.

Yup, tried to paint the Germans as a bunch of monsters and just made themselves look silly.

Guys and Gentlemen as We are,

Please Please Please Note,
Silent Hunter Is A GAME,

Not to be Linked to REAL LIFE,
I can tell You all in real Life? I've saved many,
But I Choose this GAME to Enjoy it,
Not As A Tool To Replay REAL LIFE,
History as We Learn Is Done,
Gentleman. It Is A Game ,,
Our Website Now has over 150 Europeans
Germans,French,Italians,
This Is A Post started not For the Game Itself,
Just to cause ., Public Opinion on A Game?
Correct RR???
Enjoy the Game for what it gives Us,
Play It Or Do not Post
Simple

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Was it Jimbuna who quoted a section of a captured German crew interrogation by the British? It was hilarious! The British had already figured out what sort of comic book martinets the German Crew was and just stuffed the real people into their already prepared mold. They needed a lot of forcing to make them fit, but what of it!

They especially made light of the crew's girlie pictures and racy magazines. As if every British sub didn't have the same thing going on! (after all, how else would they know where the stuff was hidden hehe) But no, the German crew was especially crude and had literature of no cultural value whatever (sniff, sniff). Monty Python had a lot of truth in it.

Yup, tried to paint the Germans as a bunch of monsters and just made themselves look silly.

No....not me, but I do vaguely recall the thread you are referring to.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Joe S

One more comment, a great many books on the subject state that U-boat crews who were captured and interrogated were almost always described as fanatical Nazis. I dont know that I believe that they all were fanatical Nazis, but that is how the British apparently viewed them. Joe S

That's a bit ambiguous, saying that a great many books say that U-boat crews were described as Nazis... that doesn't really mean a lot, as it could be that a great many books, all used the same source that described U-boat crews as Nazis, instead of a lot of independant sources described U-boat crews as Nazis - see the difference? From what I have read, the propoganda of the day was that most U-boat crews were expected to be dyed-in-the-wool Nazis, but in practice this was different. If you read U-Boat Killer, you will read a frank account of the behaviour of the captured crews and how much respect they had for their captains, whether for the better or not. Some crews were completely loyal to their commander and highly efficient, other crews had distain for their commander, who they viewed as cowards, which was bourne out as they were the first to abandon ship when their U-boat was sinking. There are good and bad seaman on each side. Those fast tracked to command by virtue of being a fanatical Nazi party member were probably not good command material from the start.