Germany embarks on total and complete ban of killer games

[Skybird]

Well, obviously something is repsonsible for that schools are argued to be in need of using metal detectors, and having plicemen patrolling them. When I was at chool, we did nbot need that. Nobody brought weapons and iknifes into school. the most dangerous item we were armed with eventually were a Edding-type of marker pencil. Graffiti was the worst you coudl expect in violence.

This has chnaged. Mobbing is a rule in many German schools now. Knifes are brought in, gas-weapons, pepper-spray, etc. People vpoicing acceptance for having metal detectors and police patrols - 20 years ago nobody would even have imagined such a debate possible in the future.

So, something obviously has changed, but nobody wants to face the respnsibility. Not the movie makers showing explicit depictions of horror and violance. Not the TV makers, having constantly lowered the moral barriers on nudity and violence and crap TV. Not the makers of video games. Not the producers of firearms. Not the print media. Not the producers of alcoholic drinks.

Our youth is growing up in a more and more violent climate, and a culture that is fond of violence. What would have been a scandal 30 years ago, today'S does not make anybody raising his exebrow anymore.

Something has changed for the worse, but nobody wants to be the bad guy causing it. I assume it were some brownies then.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Something has changed for the worse, but nobody wants to be the bad guy causing it. I assume it were some brownies then.

Many things have indeed changed over the past 30 years. However in my mind it is not healthy or fair to lay the blame at the doorstep of any particular industry, product or group. As far as children being responsible for many henious acts, that is why they are called immature, because they are. More attentive parenting may prove to be our best defense against such sad happenings. All too often, in the US anyway, we let others, whith less incentive to do good by our children (schools, TV, Video games, gov't, with silly laws) take care of said children.

I think we can trace many bad behaviors back to the home. A good paddling can do a world of good when dispensed fairly with consistent rules and without being abusive.

EDIT Having re-read that last part I don't mean to imply corperal discipline is the only option but boundries are important and should be established within the framework of the nuclear family.

[AVGWarhawk]

[Dowly]

Piracy rates will go thru the roof in Germany, that's for sure.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Piracy rates will go thru the roof in Germany, that's for sure.

and school shootings as well im afraid.

people dont realize but its not these games that cause kids to snap... its the constant teasing and rejection from their peers that causes these kids to flip out and kill half their class mates.

better ban movies and songs that deal with mayhem too and burn violent books... i hate to see Germany go all the way back 65 years to that school of thought.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Piracy rates will go thru the roof in Germany, that's for sure.

Just order the fu**cking game on amazon.co.uk or and any other european e-tailer. Thats one of the advantages of being part of the EU.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Just order the fu**cking game on amazon.co.uk or and any other european e-tailer. Thats one of the advantages of being part of the EU.

Freedom of trade throughout a borderless community.

I somehow think it would end up like the differing controls regarding drugs between Britain and Holland for example....and almost impossible to enforce.

I'm a little drawn on this one. On the one hand I don't think this particular thing will solve anything in Germany. On the other hand I'm glad that at least one government in Europe is still able to enforce things with the aim of improving things for the citizens and not just about helping to make the über-rich even richer.

Btw, it's so funny to see Americans getting their panties in a bunch over the miniscule UK gun crime figures. I mean, it's like 1/100th of USA's figures.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Piracy rates will go thru the roof in Germany, that's for sure.

Exactly. There goes the last of the moral qualms anybody will have against just BTing said "killer games" for free on the Internet - you can't even say some hard working game maker's livelihood is being threatened, because he can't sell the game in Germany anyway...

Originally Posted by Skybird

It means nothing, since there is zero statistical anaylsis given on forming a link between the two. In the nineties, I did shave off my beared. Maybe this made crime rates going so and so, up or down, and it contributed to the video games scene to make suczh and such kind of games?

We all know statistics aren't perfect (especially crime stats that depend on a wide, layered variety of assumptions), but at least he offered something on his side within this thread, which is better than what you did.

Now, outlining the general topic at hand:

In utilitarian terms, this measure involves a 100% probability of negatively affecting the interests of a significant percentage of the population for a vague possibility of positively affecting an insignificant percentage of the population (however many school shootings show up in the news, as a percentage of the student body the number is insignificant - we won't be living in the same world if it did).

On the Plus side, while it would be a real groaner for our Violent Game Players, the deaths caused by school shootings obviously have a much higher value than the displeasure of our game players. Still, even THOSE would be such an insignificant percentage that it is hard to believe the math would wind up favoring this measure.

Even generously assuming that this measure will eliminate further school shootings, it will be an upward climb to justify in the face of the sheer disparity in affected percentages.

To further add to that is the fact that thanks to BT, this measure would be nearly ineffective against Violent Game Players. It is just like an anti-gun law, except the proliferation of BT is much higher than illegal guns. In the end, only the most law-abiding segment (thus least likely to commit crime) guys will actually get hurt.

Sure, you can add anti-BT measures and all that to try and put a stop to it, now you are just pouring into the Loss side of the ledger. In short, any way you cut it, the actual balance will be nearly ZERO gain for definite loss.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

We all know statistics aren't perfect (especially crime stats that depend on a wide, layered variety of assumptions), but at least he offered something on his side within this thread, which is better than what you did.

You are wrong. Its better not to post any statistics that are porked, than to post statistics that are porked (and then say that would be better than nothing). Because the latter is actively misleading, while the first simply does not make any statement.

And I posted that old reply in reference to the obviously manipulative graph construction with the game covers in it by Mookie, since it is not clear to me wether that was meant as a joke, or for real.

Flawed data is better than no data? You must be kidding. It can even do greater damage than no data.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You are wrong. Its better not to post any statistics that are porked, than to post statistics that are porked (and then say that would be better than nothing). Because the latter is actively misleading, while the first simply does not make any statement.

And I posted that old reply in reference to the obviously manipulative graph construction with the game covers in it by Mookie, since it is not clear to me wether that was meant as a joke, or for real.

Flawed data is better than no data? You must be kidding. It can even do greater damage than no data.

That's true, but for that to be so, you'll have to SHOW it is flawed. The datasource clearly has an agenda, but that's far from showing it is flawed.

The chart obviously cannot prove that Violent Video Games reduce crime. But as far as I can see MM never said it was meant to do that. It IS enough to strike a blow (though not a knockout) at people who want to claim the other direction, by showing that if anything, the data seems to be in the inverse direction.

[Jimbuna]

Watch you don't go scaring your daughters with that thing

[AVGWarhawk]

2009 Germany's game of the year! TV Pong



It does not get more radical than this!

[Dowly]

ROFL!

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

More attentive parenting may prove to be our best defense against such sad happenings.

This !

How in the world could an attentive parent not know their child is planning on a killing spree?