Eyeballing Speed?

Platapus · 05-26-09, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PortsmouthProwler

* My style is to play as close to the historical reality as possible. I won't say that I'm the last word, but I have done perhaps more reading than most, as well as worked on SSNs at a Naval Shipyard. I loved US Sub Ops (1949) - standard reference. I also highly recommend George Grider's (...as told to a ghost writer, q.v.) War Fish. Very, very, informative.

I am always looking for more books to add to my library.

I am not finding anything on "US Sub Ops" Is that the full and complete title?

Also concerning Grider's book. I would be interested in hearing your opinions about the accuracy of this book? What specifically do you like about this book and what does it contain that is not covered in other books.

I am always reluctant to put much weight in a memoir. My very biased opinion is that I find memoirs very interesting and entertaining to read, but not always a citable source.

PortsmouthProwler · 05-26-09, 10:10 AM

* Umm, Office Of Naval Publications, or something like that, 1949 - US Submarine Operations in World War Two, I think, in full. Basically a distillation of every patrol report, with helpful discussions of tactics, doctrine, the progression and modification of same, etc. Standard and authoritative. Probably out of print, unless you write ONP.

* George Grider was the third officer on the Wahoo when it entered Wewak harbor, among other things. At the time, O'Kane was Morton's XO. Grider ended up as the last wartime CO of the Flasher. Incidentally, someone modded a mission for Flasher's sinking of four tankers in December, 1944 and set it it off the Phillipines. Uh, sorry, but no - it was off the coast of Indochina, at night, and is an approach worth studying.

* I think the ghostwriter's name is Sims.

* Memoirs can be quite instructive, IMO. A couple of observations: "the periscope was next to useless at night" - Grider; "torpedo wakes were almost impossible to spot in all but a glassy sea in broad daylight" - 'Bud' Gruner.

Again, I'm hardly an authority, but am just explaining how I play. Racking up 35,000 tons patrol after patrol is ahistoric. Is historical versimilitude the be-all and end-all? No, play how you wish. I just try to point out things now and then according to my best understanding.

Platapus · 05-26-09, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PortsmouthProwler

* Umm, Office Of Naval Publications, or something like that, 1949 - US Submarine Operations in World War Two, I think, in full.

Much thanks

Quote:

"torpedo wakes were almost impossible to spot in all but a glassy sea in broad daylight" - 'Bud' Gruner.

I have read that in other sources also. From the air the wakes were easily seen but from the relative low angle of observation from a ship, I can believe that it would be hard to see.

I wonder how SH3 and SH4 model this and is it modeled realistically?

PortsmouthProwler · 05-26-09, 10:45 AM

You're more than welcome. Grider's boats, BTW: Pollack, Wahoo, Hawkbill, and then command of the Flasher.

* John Lee went on something like nine patrols and was probably the most for any officer, at least a commander. It became SOP to relieve after four or five command patrols and cycle to the States as an instructor or other duties. One reason was to help new skippers. Another was simple stress and fatigue.

* Grider records a couple of gun actions - they certainly weren't unknown. My 'house rule' is pretty much the standard 'wounded merchies only'. Remember that SSs aren't armored - one good enemy hit from a real gun and you're toast, one way or another. Small arms can tear ya up pretty good, too.

* A lot of skippers shot up sampans and such. I just don't bother.

And to stick to the thread topic - it takes a lot of practice to get a feel for speed through the scope or glasses. Again, I use it as a first estimate and try to use whatever I can to get AOB, range, and speed. This can get dicey doing it my way; I've been trying to keep the scope down a lot more lately. Trying to stopwatch things for a full minute can be a giveaway. Maybe 15 seconds would be better.

I'm finding that the approach is extremely important. Trying to eyeball courses at 8,000 yards or more can be difficult. Radar does help. I think that taking the time to get in front of the target's course is probably the first concern.

05-26-09, 10:10 AM	#2
PortsmouthProwler Bosun Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 65 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	* Umm, Office Of Naval Publications, or something like that, 1949 - US Submarine Operations in World War Two, I think, in full. Basically a distillation of every patrol report, with helpful discussions of tactics, doctrine, the progression and modification of same, etc. Standard and authoritative. Probably out of print, unless you write ONP. * George Grider was the third officer on the Wahoo when it entered Wewak harbor, among other things. At the time, O'Kane was Morton's XO. Grider ended up as the last wartime CO of the Flasher. Incidentally, someone modded a mission for Flasher's sinking of four tankers in December, 1944 and set it it off the Phillipines. Uh, sorry, but no - it was off the coast of Indochina, at night, and is an approach worth studying. * I think the ghostwriter's name is Sims. * Memoirs can be quite instructive, IMO. A couple of observations: "the periscope was next to useless at night" - Grider; "torpedo wakes were almost impossible to spot in all but a glassy sea in broad daylight" - 'Bud' Gruner. Again, I'm hardly an authority, but am just explaining how I play. Racking up 35,000 tons patrol after patrol is ahistoric. Is historical versimilitude the be-all and end-all? No, play how you wish. I just try to point out things now and then according to my best understanding.

05-26-09, 10:45 AM	#4
PortsmouthProwler Bosun Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 65 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	You're more than welcome. Grider's boats, BTW: Pollack, Wahoo, Hawkbill, and then command of the Flasher. * John Lee went on something like nine patrols and was probably the most for any officer, at least a commander. It became SOP to relieve after four or five command patrols and cycle to the States as an instructor or other duties. One reason was to help new skippers. Another was simple stress and fatigue. * Grider records a couple of gun actions - they certainly weren't unknown. My 'house rule' is pretty much the standard 'wounded merchies only'. Remember that SSs aren't armored - one good enemy hit from a real gun and you're toast, one way or another. Small arms can tear ya up pretty good, too. * A lot of skippers shot up sampans and such. I just don't bother. And to stick to the thread topic - it takes a lot of practice to get a feel for speed through the scope or glasses. Again, I use it as a first estimate and try to use whatever I can to get AOB, range, and speed. This can get dicey doing it my way; I've been trying to keep the scope down a lot more lately. Trying to stopwatch things for a full minute can be a giveaway. Maybe 15 seconds would be better. I'm finding that the approach is extremely important. Trying to eyeball courses at 8,000 yards or more can be difficult. Radar does help. I think that taking the time to get in front of the target's course is probably the first concern.