Late 43 convoys and beyond (GWX)

Jimbuna · 05-24-09, 03:20 PM

This is exactly what happened at this time....the hunters became the hunted.

TarJak · 05-24-09, 05:48 PM

From late '43 onward the game changes from one of hunting to one of survival whilst also hunting.

Your tactics need to be adapted, you must be far more conservative and your tonnage scores are going to be predictably smaller.

If you are patient and stealthy enough though you can still get away scot free with even heavily defened convoys and task forces. There are opportunities for those that can get into the right position, but you must also know when to avoid contact and not press the attack.

the fun part is leaning to know the difference.

tomfon · 05-25-09, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

If you are patient and stealthy enough though you can still get away scot free with even heavily defened convoys and task forces. There are opportunities for those that can get into the right position, but you must also know when to avoid contact and not press the attack.

Yeah. Therefore, its completely suicidal to attack a convoy guarded by 12,13 or 14 destroyers. In fact, its not only suicidal, its useless too cause there are very small chances to hit ANY-thing. On the other hand, there are some convoys guarded only by 6 or 7 destroyers. These are an opportunity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

the fun part is leaning to know the difference.

P.S. I once got this message while on patrol (1944): Constant aircraft. CENTRAL ATLANTIC WORSE THAN BAY OF BISCAY.

Jaman · 05-25-09, 07:14 AM

6, 7 DD´s an oportunity?. If only one gets a hint of your position you are done for!. I could barely escape from a 5 DD´s attack after 3 realtime hours, i had half a mind of surface and put and end to it.

irish1958 · 05-25-09, 08:10 AM

Following the spectacular success of the U-boats in the North Atlantic in January-March, 1943 using wolf pack tactics, April saw the Allies getting serious about anti-submarine warfare. U_boat losses became so severe that BDU recalled all boats and changed tactics to harass shipping in waters near Britten and North of Norway.
Convoy attacks (especially) by wolf packs ceased, and single boats were not to attack convoys.
The "Battle of the Atlantic" was over and the Allies had won.

So anybody who finds it difficult to attack convoys from then on, join the club at the bottom of the Atlantic.

Pepe le Moko · 05-25-09, 09:17 AM

Yes when you read what happened historically during that period, like irish said, after a few successes in the begining of 1943, it goes downhill pretty fast from there and gets really ugly.

Almost all the escort groups have a jeep carrier with them, the Allied organize bait convoys to draw the U-boats and then trap them, I think there was one case where there were 21 escorts protecting a convoy or waiting for U-boats to fall into the trap. Also it is around that time they have these nasty Bay of Biscay aircraft ASW patrols or offensives and the U-boats barely manage to do any significant sinkings and suffer huge losses. At one point, probably summer 1943, they have say 18 U-boats sailing out of the french harbours and 13 get sunk byaircrafts.

So yes it is around that time that it becomes really nasty.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 05-25-09, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

From late '43 onward the game changes from one of hunting to one of survival whilst also hunting.

Your tactics need to be adapted, you must be far more conservative and your tonnage scores are going to be predictably smaller.

If you are patient and stealthy enough though you can still get away scot free with even heavily defened convoys and task forces. There are opportunities for those that can get into the right position, but you must also know when to avoid contact and not press the attack.

the fun part is leaning to know the difference.

I take it that high wind days would be ideal, anything that can kick up the waves and hamper the ASDIC would be good. I'm guessing right position would depend on how gfar out from the merchants the DDs are. I havent made it this far,but if they are 3-5 kms out, you set up for point blank shots. If they still continue to escort close in like they are doing so far in 39-40, you take a 2-3 km shot,per the GWX manual (one shot for far side of the convoy and run away before impact). I really dont know, but I would like to hear more about opportunities and how tactics have to be changed.

Jaman · 05-25-09, 10:05 AM

Even with the XXI (since im the best Kaleun i forced the BdU to give me one on February 1944

) its very difficult. Lately i have managed to cause some damage from long range (no less than 4000m), i fire a 6 mixed eels salvo (2 T3, 2 T3 Patern, 2 T1 patern) in a wide spread and then turn away as fast and as deep as possible. Seems to be working, 2 Large Merchant, a couple of Liberty´s, a small freighter and small merchant sunk so far, and none of the escorts got a hint of me.

I guess ill keep attacking using that tactic, at least while my luck last

.

BTW: I really hate the RAF, i hate them so much that im sure Churchill felt a disturbance in the force.
They nearly got me the last patrol 300km away from French coast, direct hit just behind the turret, they forced me into Brest for repairs with half my batteries dead, no more snorkel, both periscopes broken and my WO in pieces. Not only that, those damn bastards tried to finish me off 4 times on my way back to port!.

Sure this is not a gentelmen war anymore

.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 05-25-09, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaman

.

BTW: I really hate the RAF, i hate them so much that im sure Churchill felt a disturbance in the force.

Cordell Hull to Roosevelt: "My Lord, Churchill bids you to make contact with him."
Roosevelt:"Manuever out of the asteroid field so we can send a clear transmission."

Roosevelt to the Churchill hologram:"What is thy bidding my master.."

"Churchill:"We have a new enemy..."

Roosevelt:"I have felt him. He's just a boy. He's at sea, Doenitz can no longer help him."

sharkbit · 05-25-09, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnterseeBoogeyMan

Cordell Hull to Roosevelt: "My Lord, Churchill bids you to make contact with him."
Roosevelt:"Manuever out of the asteroid field so we can send a clear transmission."

Roosevelt to the Churchill hologram:"What is thy bidding my master.."

"Churchill:"We have a new enemy..."

Roosevelt:"I have felt him. He's just a boy. He's at sea, Doenitz can no longer help him."

Jaman · 05-25-09, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnterseeBoogeyMan

Cordell Hull to Roosevelt: "My Lord, Churchill bids you to make contact with him."
Roosevelt:"Manuever out of the asteroid field so we can send a clear transmission."

Roosevelt to the Churchill hologram:"What is thy bidding my master.."

"Churchill:"We have a new enemy..."

Roosevelt:"I have felt him. He's just a boy. He's at sea, Doenitz can no longer help him."

Would the HMS Nelson count as the first Death Star?.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 05-25-09, 07:07 PM

The whole bloody island would be the Death Star

Nelson might be the Super Star Destroyer

TarJak · 05-25-09, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnterseeBoogeyMan

I take it that high wind days would be ideal, anything that can kick up the waves and hamper the ASDIC would be good. I'm guessing right position would depend on how gfar out from the merchants the DDs are. I havent made it this far,but if they are 3-5 kms out, you set up for point blank shots. If they still continue to escort close in like they are doing so far in 39-40, you take a 2-3 km shot,per the GWX manual (one shot for far side of the convoy and run away before impact). I really dont know, but I would like to hear more about opportunities and how tactics have to be changed.

All good options. bad weather unfortunately doesn't effect sonar capabilities in game but funnily assist in making surface attacks in early war.

If you are ahead of the convoy, it is relatively lightly guarded and you can slip by them (rare), you can still get in close.

Best option is a long shot 3-5km fan of all forward eels then book it out of town as quietly as possible. I usually start a 45-90deg turn and dive as soon as the last eel is clear so that you are away from the firing datum that the escorts will converge on.

Even if they do pick you up you can still make it out alive if you are quite and cunning.

As an example I'm currently in a IIA (Small and manouveable), off the D-Day beaches, late (about 2345), on June 5th, in about 20m depth trying to sneak an attack on the tank landing ships etc but have 3 DD's hunting me. I slipped under one of them and am escaping in his baffles. The other two are pounding where I was when they first "saw" me and as long as I keep my profile low I should be able to get away.

Whether I will be able to get into a firing position at 2kts is unlikely, but that's how 1944 goes. Sometimes it is better to come out alive than having killed off lots of the enemy.

AndyW · 05-26-09, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

As an example I'm currently in a IIA (Small and manouveable), off the D-Day beaches, late (about 2345), on June 5th, in about 20m depth trying to sneak an attack on the tank landing ships etc but have 3 DD's hunting me. I slipped under one of them and am escaping in his baffles. The other two are pounding where I was when they first "saw" me and as long as I keep my profile low I should be able to get away.

Whether I will be able to get into a firing position at 2kts is unlikely, but that's how 1944 goes. Sometimes it is better to come out alive than having killed off lots of the enemy.

Please tell me if you survived this. I'll suggest you for a Ritterkreuz for outstanding bravery!

Cheers,

TarJak · 05-26-09, 05:50 AM

Still alive so far, but not in a good position to attack the landing force.

the DD's are still (after 3 hours game time) dropping DC's about 3km away where they think I am.

05-24-09, 03:20 PM	#1
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	This is exactly what happened at this time....the hunters became the hunted. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

05-25-09, 07:14 AM	#4
Jaman Gunner Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Spain Posts: 95 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	6, 7 DD´s an oportunity?. If only one gets a hint of your position you are done for!. I could barely escape from a 5 DD´s attack after 3 realtime hours, i had half a mind of surface and put and end to it. __________________ Silent Hunter III - GWX 2.1 - 16km Atmosphere - SH3 Commander - 62% Realism - DiD Kaptlt. Reinhard Hessler - 7th Flotilla - U-255 (Type VIIC) Oblt. z. S. Hayden von Beier - R.I.P

05-25-09, 08:10 AM	#5
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	Following the spectacular success of the U-boats in the North Atlantic in January-March, 1943 using wolf pack tactics, April saw the Allies getting serious about anti-submarine warfare. U_boat losses became so severe that BDU recalled all boats and changed tactics to harass shipping in waters near Britten and North of Norway. Convoy attacks (especially) by wolf packs ceased, and single boats were not to attack convoys. The "Battle of the Atlantic" was over and the Allies had won. So anybody who finds it difficult to attack convoys from then on, join the club at the bottom of the Atlantic. __________________ Irish1958

05-25-09, 10:05 AM	#8
Jaman Gunner Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Spain Posts: 95 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Even with the XXI (since im the best Kaleun i forced the BdU to give me one on February 1944 ) its very difficult. Lately i have managed to cause some damage from long range (no less than 4000m), i fire a 6 mixed eels salvo (2 T3, 2 T3 Patern, 2 T1 patern) in a wide spread and then turn away as fast and as deep as possible. Seems to be working, 2 Large Merchant, a couple of Liberty´s, a small freighter and small merchant sunk so far, and none of the escorts got a hint of me. I guess ill keep attacking using that tactic, at least while my luck last . BTW: I really hate the RAF, i hate them so much that im sure Churchill felt a disturbance in the force. They nearly got me the last patrol 300km away from French coast, direct hit just behind the turret, they forced me into Brest for repairs with half my batteries dead, no more snorkel, both periscopes broken and my WO in pieces. Not only that, those damn bastards tried to finish me off 4 times on my way back to port!. Sure this is not a gentelmen war anymore . __________________ Silent Hunter III - GWX 2.1 - 16km Atmosphere - SH3 Commander - 62% Realism - DiD Kaptlt. Reinhard Hessler - 7th Flotilla - U-255 (Type VIIC) Oblt. z. S. Hayden von Beier - R.I.P

05-24-09, 05:48 PM	#2
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	From late '43 onward the game changes from one of hunting to one of survival whilst also hunting. Your tactics need to be adapted, you must be far more conservative and your tonnage scores are going to be predictably smaller. If you are patient and stealthy enough though you can still get away scot free with even heavily defened convoys and task forces. There are opportunities for those that can get into the right position, but you must also know when to avoid contact and not press the attack. the fun part is leaning to know the difference.

05-25-09, 09:17 AM	#6
Pepe le Moko A-ganger Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 73 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	Yes when you read what happened historically during that period, like irish said, after a few successes in the begining of 1943, it goes downhill pretty fast from there and gets really ugly. Almost all the escort groups have a jeep carrier with them, the Allied organize bait convoys to draw the U-boats and then trap them, I think there was one case where there were 21 escorts protecting a convoy or waiting for U-boats to fall into the trap. Also it is around that time they have these nasty Bay of Biscay aircraft ASW patrols or offensives and the U-boats barely manage to do any significant sinkings and suffer huge losses. At one point, probably summer 1943, they have say 18 U-boats sailing out of the french harbours and 13 get sunk byaircrafts. So yes it is around that time that it becomes really nasty.

05-25-09, 07:07 PM	#12
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	The whole bloody island would be the Death Star Nelson might be the Super Star Destroyer

05-26-09, 05:50 AM	#15
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Still alive so far, but not in a good position to attack the landing force. the DD's are still (after 3 hours game time) dropping DC's about 3km away where they think I am.