Demjanjuk being deported to face trial in Germany.

Skybird · 05-22-09, 01:17 AM

Poland and Kaczynski going crazy - once again.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...626171,00.html

What's wrong with these people? They find it okay to compare Merkel with Hitler, but are pissed at the EU's latest video documentation on the fall of the wall not focussing "enough" on the Polish Solidarnosc, so they claim. And in this guest comment for a german newspaper, the Polish chief editor of Poland's second-largest daily newspaper (an Axel Springer creation...) is arguing here...

http://www.welt.de/politik/article37...er-Europa.html

... that Turkey is about to convince Germany to attack and occupy Poland again, that Poland's glorious future includes Poland to become the central superpower on the continent while Germany already has lost all sympathy and chances, that Poland claims to be all europe's central energy supply- and power-node (taking all europe as hostage they dream, eh?) and that in 20-30 years, according to Polish authors' seriously meant argumentation, Japan will launch a war against the United States again.

With so massive inferiority complexes, instead of EU membership i think a collective psychotherapy would have served their national health much better. I was arguing in the past to treat them with understanding and to give them time, but there is no end in sight to their endless lamentos and poisenous attacks and unacceptable Nazi provocations, and they make good use of their claimed posture of being the eternally misunderstood most prominent victim of all history - and try to win solid gold from that. It really gets annoying, two generations after the Nazis were kicked in the a$$ with all might. A TV report three weeks ago found that despite the political, official level, the climate between Germans and Poles on a private level also is detoriating, and that anti-germanism is spreading massively throughout Polish society. Until some time ago, inter-personal relations between mmebers of both states were said to be much better.

Actually, Germany is hunting war criminals of the Nazi era, until today. Poland wants that to be limited to German nationals only, hiding that a not small number of people from Eastern countries assisted the Nazis - it violates Poland's claim to be victim exclusively. Just months ago, Austria had a hard time to learn - and accept - by new film documents from the era before Hitler annexed Austria, that Nazism already was extremely popular and celebrated in austrian society and towns and villages - long before the first German parade on Austrian streets took place. they also loved to behave as if Hitler was no Austrian, but German. But Austrian politicians and society had the strength to accept its got it, it seems. What's the prolem with Poland? Statements like in that essay, really document a seriously confused, neurotic mind obsessed with trying to be seen as a victim while dreaming megalomaniac dreams at the same time. If that is not a contradiction.

Finding out this part of history has nothing to do with minimising the responsibility of the Nazi regime for the second world war, the injustice taking place, and the horrible crimes. It all is just about learning a more complete picture. But it seems some do not want that kind of completeness if it forces them to have a critical look at their own past, too. Because the truth is that the Nazi'S found willing allies, cooperating military forces and individual assistants for their crimes in all occupied territories, throughout europe, from Norway to the Balkans, from France to Russia, and many of them were convinced anti-semites themselves, and helped the Nazis for personal convictions.

kranz · 05-22-09, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Poland and Kaczynski going crazy - once again.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...626171,00.html

What's wrong with these people? They find it okay to compare Merkel with Hitler, but are pissed at the EU's latest video documentation on the fall of the wall not focussing "enough" on the Polish Solidarnosc, so they claim. And in this guest comment for a german newspaper, the Polish chief editor of Poland's second-largest daily newspaper (an Axel Springer creation...) is arguing here...

There is a Polish proverb, more or less it goes like this: "you try to be more "popish" than the Pope himself". I'm not surprised of that reaction because the explanation is given in the second sentence of that article. PiS(party of Kaczynski brothers)refers to a certain group of people voting for them so nothing impressive for me here. It works like manipulation or sth like this-your refer to fear of some people to reach your aim. It is like placing big tits on the cover of a newspaper or writing "Polish concentration camps" after it was said hundreds of times that they were not "Polish". Coming back to that EU video-are you sure it was about "the Wall"? I mean I heard that it was generally about the changes of that time not about any particular country though I can't find decent article proving it. And actually it wasn't about not focusing enough on Solidarnosc but about the selection of photos in that footage. It is sth like 5 seconds, first showing general Jaruzelski and it ends with a reenactment of polish militia. It is like saying "sorry" to the czechs by showing them Heidrich and burning Lidice. You get what I mean? Other pictures shown do not match with the idea that goes along with pictures concerning Poland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

With so massive inferiority complexes, instead of EU membership i think a collective psychotherapy would have served their national health much better.

I was too young at that time to vote NO for joining EU but please, electroshock our balls, Herr Doktor.

Skybird · 05-22-09, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranz

I was too young at that time to vote NO for joining EU but please, electroshock our balls, Herr Doktor.

And you are wondering.

Highbury · 05-22-09, 05:10 AM

IMO it is good that they are putting him on trial. I found it rather amusing though that on two different websites they had these very conflicting quotes lol

Quote:

"All the living Nazi war criminals should know that there can be no mercy for them, regardless of their age," Knobloch said in a statement.

"They must be held accountable for their inhumane actions. Because there is no statute of limitations for crimes against humanity."

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/12/...juk/index.html

and:

Quote:

Ironically, a few years ago, Germany passed a law setting a time limitation on the prosecution of German war criminals. Thus Germans, who were primarily the ones responsible for the death camps, cannot be prosecuted, but individuals from other countries, like Demjanjuk, can!

Source: http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op_ed/41895

Those are both just people's opinions... but is it true that law was passed in Germany?

05-22-09, 07:56 AM

Quote:

I found it rather amusing though that on two different websites they had these very conflicting quotes lol

I like this line from the second

Quote:

Demjanjuk was never a Nazi. Nazis were Germans

Are they attempting to rewrite history?

Dan D · 05-22-09, 08:22 AM

Quote:
Ironically, a few years ago, Germany passed a law setting a time limitation on the prosecution of German war criminals. Thus Germans, who were primarily the ones responsible for the death camps, cannot be prosecuted, but individuals from other countries, like Demjanjuk, can!

Source: http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op_ed/41895

Those are both just people's opinions... but is it true that law was passed in Germany?

----------------------------------

Well, it is true, of course. What have you thought?

Some necessary adjustments have been made in the past.

Constitution:
Article 3 [Equality before the law]
old version:
"(1) All persons shall be equal before the law.
...
(3) No person shall be favored or disfavored because of sex, parentage, race, language, homeland and origin, faith, or religious or political opinions.
No person shall be disfavored because of disability".

A subsection (4) has been added:

“(4) Non-Germans are not “persons” in the sense of this law.

++++

Civil Code:
“Section 1: The legal capacity of a human being begins on the completion of birth.”

It now reads in section 1a:
"Section 1 does not apply to non-Germans who will be given a special status defined by Sondergesetze."
As a consequence, the German Civil code as a whole does no longer apply to foreign nationals.

++++
and finally: Criminal Code

Section 78, subsection 2:
"Serious criminal offenses under Section 220a (genocide) and Section 211 (murder) are not subject to a statute of limitations,
“unless committed by Germans” (added).

Skybird · 05-22-09, 02:47 PM

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...626281,00.html

Spiegel said their article has hit a nerve, obviously. They give a collection of reader's comments.

05-22-09, 01:17 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,630 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Poland and Kaczynski going crazy - once again. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...626171,00.html What's wrong with these people? They find it okay to compare Merkel with Hitler, but are pissed at the EU's latest video documentation on the fall of the wall not focussing "enough" on the Polish Solidarnosc, so they claim. And in this guest comment for a german newspaper, the Polish chief editor of Poland's second-largest daily newspaper (an Axel Springer creation...) is arguing here... http://www.welt.de/politik/article37...er-Europa.html ... that Turkey is about to convince Germany to attack and occupy Poland again, that Poland's glorious future includes Poland to become the central superpower on the continent while Germany already has lost all sympathy and chances, that Poland claims to be all europe's central energy supply- and power-node (taking all europe as hostage they dream, eh?) and that in 20-30 years, according to Polish authors' seriously meant argumentation, Japan will launch a war against the United States again. With so massive inferiority complexes, instead of EU membership i think a collective psychotherapy would have served their national health much better. I was arguing in the past to treat them with understanding and to give them time, but there is no end in sight to their endless lamentos and poisenous attacks and unacceptable Nazi provocations, and they make good use of their claimed posture of being the eternally misunderstood most prominent victim of all history - and try to win solid gold from that. It really gets annoying, two generations after the Nazis were kicked in the a$$ with all might. A TV report three weeks ago found that despite the political, official level, the climate between Germans and Poles on a private level also is detoriating, and that anti-germanism is spreading massively throughout Polish society. Until some time ago, inter-personal relations between mmebers of both states were said to be much better. Actually, Germany is hunting war criminals of the Nazi era, until today. Poland wants that to be limited to German nationals only, hiding that a not small number of people from Eastern countries assisted the Nazis - it violates Poland's claim to be victim exclusively. Just months ago, Austria had a hard time to learn - and accept - by new film documents from the era before Hitler annexed Austria, that Nazism already was extremely popular and celebrated in austrian society and towns and villages - long before the first German parade on Austrian streets took place. they also loved to behave as if Hitler was no Austrian, but German. But Austrian politicians and society had the strength to accept its got it, it seems. What's the prolem with Poland? Statements like in that essay, really document a seriously confused, neurotic mind obsessed with trying to be seen as a victim while dreaming megalomaniac dreams at the same time. If that is not a contradiction. Finding out this part of history has nothing to do with minimising the responsibility of the Nazi regime for the second world war, the injustice taking place, and the horrible crimes. It all is just about learning a more complete picture. But it seems some do not want that kind of completeness if it forces them to have a critical look at their own past, too. Because the truth is that the Nazi'S found willing allies, cooperating military forces and individual assistants for their crimes in all occupied territories, throughout europe, from Norway to the Balkans, from France to Russia, and many of them were convinced anti-semites themselves, and helped the Nazis for personal convictions. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 05-22-09 at 01:37 AM.

05-22-09, 02:47 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,630 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	http://www.spiegel.de/international/...626281,00.html Spiegel said their article has hit a nerve, obviously. They give a collection of reader's comments. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-22-09, 08:22 AM	#6
Dan D Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: 9th Flotilla Posts: 839 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Quote: Ironically, a few years ago, Germany passed a law setting a time limitation on the prosecution of German war criminals. Thus Germans, who were primarily the ones responsible for the death camps, cannot be prosecuted, but individuals from other countries, like Demjanjuk, can! Source: http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op_ed/41895 Those are both just people's opinions... but is it true that law was passed in Germany? ---------------------------------- Well, it is true, of course. What have you thought? Some necessary adjustments have been made in the past. Constitution: Article 3 [Equality before the law] old version: "(1) All persons shall be equal before the law. ... (3) No person shall be favored or disfavored because of sex, parentage, race, language, homeland and origin, faith, or religious or political opinions. No person shall be disfavored because of disability". A subsection (4) has been added: “(4) Non-Germans are not “persons” in the sense of this law. ++++ Civil Code: “Section 1: The legal capacity of a human being begins on the completion of birth.” It now reads in section 1a: "Section 1 does not apply to non-Germans who will be given a special status defined by Sondergesetze." As a consequence, the German Civil code as a whole does no longer apply to foreign nationals. ++++ and finally: Criminal Code Section 78, subsection 2: "Serious criminal offenses under Section 220a (genocide) and Section 211 (murder) are not subject to a statute of limitations, “unless committed by Germans” (added).