Pulled Over after Drinking and Driving

Schroeder · 05-16-09, 09:19 AM

@Aramike

I once had the opinion that I could handle a car just as well when I was pretty tired as I could when being wide awake. Then I started to drive Rallies at my Computer. I know now that I don't even have to start the game when I'm tired because I will eventually find myself "parking" at a tree. That opened my eyes for that I might handle a car normally under good conditions without incidents but I wasn't so sure any more whether I could react on time if anything unlikely happened (deers crossing the street, the guy in front of you steps hard on the brakes for some reason, aquaplaning....).

If you have a racing simulation (a proper one not something where you have to drive in an oval) then try it out yourself. Drive around while you are sober and see how good you manage and then drink your six pack and see if you are still driving the same.

I know that this is just simulated stuff but it allows you to compare your skills while being sober, tired, drunk or whatever without endangering yourself and others.
The results are sometimes shocking.

Platapus · 05-16-09, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

If you have a racing simulation (a proper one not something where you have to drive in an oval) then try it out yourself. Drive around while you are sober and see how good you manage and then drink your six pack and see if you are still driving the same.

What a clever idea.

Sure a simulation is not the same as real driving, but, as you said, it will give some feedback.

XabbaRus · 05-16-09, 09:59 AM

Having had a cousin killed by a drunk driver I completely disagree with Aramike.

In fact I think you were entirely irresponisble getting into a car after drinking a 6 pack over 4 hours. I don't care if the legal limit is .08 or waht and whether you considered yourself to have been stone cold sober. The fact you registered .06 shows you weren't stone cold sober and regardless that you thought you were entirely capable perceptions become something else after drinking. You complain it is an infringement on your civil rights but what about the rights of people to be able to walk home knowing that they aren't at risk of drink drivers? Do I and anyone else not have that right.

Given that you have admitted drink driving I think you have lost the right NOT to be stopped and tested at random.

CaptainHaplo · 05-16-09, 10:04 AM

Aramike, your both right and wrong.

In a sense the stop is an infringement on your rights, because you were perfectly legal. However, there are 2 questions here.

1. - what convinced the cop to pull you in the first place?
For example - did he see you leave a bar/establishment/party where he knew alcohol was being served, presenting a likely situation for drunk drivers to be on the road? *This is a tactic they use where I live - monitor bars and such late at night - however that alone is not probable cause.*
Did you commit any driving action that made him suspicious of your ability to operate a vehicle safely? Did he recieve a tip concerning your vehicle or one similiar that gave him probable cause?

Remember when answering - the first and last examples you don't have any way of knowing, and the 2nd issue is a pure judgement call by the cop.

2. - You stated repeatedly that you were below the limit defined - but how is the cop supposed to know that without testing you? Assuming for a moment he had probable cause (for whatever reason), he has an obligation to the rest of the public to stop and CHECK. Having found no problem, he surely said "have a nice night and stay safe" or something similiar.

Yes, there is the issue of resources being "wasted", but ask yourself this, had the situation been different, and it been a drunk that he DIDN"T pull, that later killed someone dear to you, would you feel the same - that its better to err on the side of the individual's right?

While I am an individual rights person, I understand that there are necessarily some inconvienences necessary to protect us from the stupidest among us. Individual rights, by necessity, must be protected from an overreaching society and government, but society must also be protected from those who would violate the individual rights of others by causing them harm.

In other words, people have every right to tie one on till they can't stand up, they do not have the right to endanger their fellow citizens because of it.

When a person chooses to operate a motor vehicle on their own property, they can be as drunk as they want. When they choose to imbibe, then operate a motor vehicle on public property, they place themselves under the rules of society, meaning that, with justification, they can be stopped and checked for the good of that society.

It sounds like your real concern is his "probable cause". If he didn't have any, then it was a bad stop. If he did - whether a call or some action you took inadvertently or unknowingly, then he did his job.

As for all the drunks going past, yes thats a blasted shame, but thats not the cop's fault assuming a good stop.

And as a side note, what they do here are license checks, simply pull up and show your license. They get close enough to tell if your toasted, and use the check to establish probable cause for other issues. Such a thing has been deemed legal here, and so far they only use such a tactic when they either are looking for a specific person, or in an area where they know they have a DUI issue, so they can "check" pretty much everyone.

Are there issues there - sure, but it gets the job done.

I would just say be happy you and yours got home safely regardless, and please always insure your not impaired anytime you drive, regardless of legal limits and whatever else. Be well

05-16-09, 10:16 AM

Out of curiosity, how exactly does one "PROVE that I was not breaking any laws"? You mean by taking the test? Millions of people have to take the test and if they are sober they go about their way. Imagine if there was no testing, sheet would be totally out of control on the roads.

I have extremely little sympathy for drunk drivers, or people driving while nearly over the limit.

Aramike, dude, sleep off the hangover and think again. Hard. Below is a link with pictures of drunk driver accidents. I suggest you take a look.

http://www.car-accidents.com/drunk-d...accidents.html

Also look at this.

Platapus · 05-16-09, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Also look at this.

Wow This needs to be plastered all over the place.

What kind of punishment would be justified against this drunk driver?

Kapitan · 05-16-09, 11:08 AM

In the UK this would be causing grevious bodily harm (GBH) with intent while driving under the influence and dangerous driving you would be looking at 4 to 8 years inside and your licence endorsed heavily if you ever get it back from the minimum obligatory ten year ban.

Aramike · 05-16-09, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Out of curiosity, how exactly does one "PROVE that I was not breaking any laws"? You mean by taking the test? Millions of people have to take the test and if they are sober they go about their way. Imagine if there was no testing, sheet would be totally out of control on the roads.

I have extremely little sympathy for drunk drivers, or people driving while nearly over the limit.

Aramike, dude, sleep off the hangover and think again. Hard. Below is a link with pictures of drunk driver accidents. I suggest you take a look.

http://www.car-accidents.com/drunk-d...accidents.html

Also look at this.

Heh, I've never met anyone who gets a hangover at .06 BAC. Not even the biggest lightweight in the world. There's more effect in a dose of Nyquil.

Moreso, if there was no arbitrary testing on the roads (which is what I'm against; not testing, but random testing) then we'd have more available officers to arrest actual dangerous drivers.

XabbaRus · 05-16-09, 01:17 PM

But you should also know that what is ok for you could be completely differetn for someone else. I know a few peoploe who after 2 beers I wouldn't let in a kids push cart let alone a car.

05-16-09, 09:19 AM	#1
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Aramike I once had the opinion that I could handle a car just as well when I was pretty tired as I could when being wide awake. Then I started to drive Rallies at my Computer. I know now that I don't even have to start the game when I'm tired because I will eventually find myself "parking" at a tree. That opened my eyes for that I might handle a car normally under good conditions without incidents but I wasn't so sure any more whether I could react on time if anything unlikely happened (deers crossing the street, the guy in front of you steps hard on the brakes for some reason, aquaplaning....). If you have a racing simulation (a proper one not something where you have to drive in an oval) then try it out yourself. Drive around while you are sober and see how good you manage and then drink your six pack and see if you are still driving the same. I know that this is just simulated stuff but it allows you to compare your skills while being sober, tired, drunk or whatever without endangering yourself and others. The results are sometimes shocking. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

05-16-09, 09:59 AM	#3
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Having had a cousin killed by a drunk driver I completely disagree with Aramike. In fact I think you were entirely irresponisble getting into a car after drinking a 6 pack over 4 hours. I don't care if the legal limit is .08 or waht and whether you considered yourself to have been stone cold sober. The fact you registered .06 shows you weren't stone cold sober and regardless that you thought you were entirely capable perceptions become something else after drinking. You complain it is an infringement on your civil rights but what about the rights of people to be able to walk home knowing that they aren't at risk of drink drivers? Do I and anyone else not have that right. Given that you have admitted drink driving I think you have lost the right NOT to be stopped and tested at random. __________________

05-16-09, 10:04 AM	#4
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Aramike, your both right and wrong. In a sense the stop is an infringement on your rights, because you were perfectly legal. However, there are 2 questions here. 1. - what convinced the cop to pull you in the first place? For example - did he see you leave a bar/establishment/party where he knew alcohol was being served, presenting a likely situation for drunk drivers to be on the road? This is a tactic they use where I live - monitor bars and such late at night - however that alone is not probable cause. Did you commit any driving action that made him suspicious of your ability to operate a vehicle safely? Did he recieve a tip concerning your vehicle or one similiar that gave him probable cause? Remember when answering - the first and last examples you don't have any way of knowing, and the 2nd issue is a pure judgement call by the cop. 2. - You stated repeatedly that you were below the limit defined - but how is the cop supposed to know that without testing you? Assuming for a moment he had probable cause (for whatever reason), he has an obligation to the rest of the public to stop and CHECK. Having found no problem, he surely said "have a nice night and stay safe" or something similiar. Yes, there is the issue of resources being "wasted", but ask yourself this, had the situation been different, and it been a drunk that he DIDN"T pull, that later killed someone dear to you, would you feel the same - that its better to err on the side of the individual's right? While I am an individual rights person, I understand that there are necessarily some inconvienences necessary to protect us from the stupidest among us. Individual rights, by necessity, must be protected from an overreaching society and government, but society must also be protected from those who would violate the individual rights of others by causing them harm. In other words, people have every right to tie one on till they can't stand up, they do not have the right to endanger their fellow citizens because of it. When a person chooses to operate a motor vehicle on their own property, they can be as drunk as they want. When they choose to imbibe, then operate a motor vehicle on public property, they place themselves under the rules of society, meaning that, with justification, they can be stopped and checked for the good of that society. It sounds like your real concern is his "probable cause". If he didn't have any, then it was a bad stop. If he did - whether a call or some action you took inadvertently or unknowingly, then he did his job. As for all the drunks going past, yes thats a blasted shame, but thats not the cop's fault assuming a good stop. And as a side note, what they do here are license checks, simply pull up and show your license. They get close enough to tell if your toasted, and use the check to establish probable cause for other issues. Such a thing has been deemed legal here, and so far they only use such a tactic when they either are looking for a specific person, or in an area where they know they have a DUI issue, so they can "check" pretty much everyone. Are there issues there - sure, but it gets the job done. I would just say be happy you and yours got home safely regardless, and please always insure your not impaired anytime you drive, regardless of legal limits and whatever else. Be well __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

05-16-09, 11:08 AM	#7
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	In the UK this would be causing grevious bodily harm (GBH) with intent while driving under the influence and dangerous driving you would be looking at 4 to 8 years inside and your licence endorsed heavily if you ever get it back from the minimum obligatory ten year ban. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

05-16-09, 01:17 PM	#9
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	But you should also know that what is ok for you could be completely differetn for someone else. I know a few peoploe who after 2 beers I wouldn't let in a kids push cart let alone a car. __________________

05-16-09, 10:16 AM	#5
OneToughHerring Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Out of curiosity, how exactly does one "PROVE that I was not breaking any laws"? You mean by taking the test? Millions of people have to take the test and if they are sober they go about their way. Imagine if there was no testing, sheet would be totally out of control on the roads. I have extremely little sympathy for drunk drivers, or people driving while nearly over the limit. Aramike, dude, sleep off the hangover and think again. Hard. Below is a link with pictures of drunk driver accidents. I suggest you take a look. http://www.car-accidents.com/drunk-d...accidents.html Also look at this.