RL Submariners

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by jmr

^^^
The old subsim, Fast Attack simulates that nicely. There's no picture of the drawn plot shown in that review but based on your input, Rip, it functions just as you described. What I never understood was how in the hell did you find a good solution on a track. It seems like there could be an infinite number of course/speed solutions you can find using your speed strips.

[*nostalgic*] .I miss the good old days of fast attack
"Con, FireControl, weapon reattack on port side.... Weapon Acquired!"

I wish that DW used that sort of active voice feedback for weapons. Its more realistic.

Originally Posted by Rip

The best thing for maintaining a tactical awareness IMHO was the Geoplot. Basically a table that had a mechanical light (we called the bug) that moved around the table based on ownships course/speed.

We would use a ruler attached to an arm on the table to draw bearing lines onto the paper placed on top of the table. The plot coordinator (one of the jobs I did) would then lay down various solution possibilities using rulers calibrated to different speeds.

After changing courses and speeds some solutions would be eliminted until the actual solution would remain. Even with all the fancy computers this tool was very popular with the most talented of the OODs.

Thanks for the insight. Does that mean that the ubiquitous Computer "Tracker" that Fast Attack and DW uses to magically track the target for the FC bearings was really just a guy shouting out bearing lines at standard intervals?

[jmr]

Be sure you guys grab the training guide available at subsim (http://www.subsim.com/subsim_files/p...tml#fastattack). It talks about how to get better use out of the plotting table.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by jmr

^^^
The old subsim, Fast Attack simulates that nicely. There's no picture of the drawn plot shown in that review but based on your input, Rip, it functions just as you described. What I never understood was how in the hell did you find a good solution on a track. It seems like there could be an infinite number of course/speed solutions you can find using your speed strips.

The key is changing the speed in the line of sight. The hardest part is determining range. Sonar will usually provide a fairly close speed. There are two techniques that help a lot.

One is by using what is called a lag leg. Which basically means moving in the opposite direction of a contact in the line of sight bearing lines will cross between you and the target. This provides an absolute minimum range.

Next you change directions in the line of sight and if possible overlead him. This will cause bearing lines to cross beyond the target. Bang absolute maximum range. Between that you just try to get a certain target solution to fit the bearing lines as you alter ownship course and speed creating legs that will only allow one solution to match the bearing lines thought your maneuvers. The more legs the better the solution.

The fire control systems really do the same things it just displays the bearing errors as a stack of dots. If you make the dots stack perfect the solution fits all the bearing lines.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

[*nostalgic*] .I miss the good old days of fast attack
"Con, FireControl, weapon reattack on port side.... Weapon Acquired!"

I wish that DW used that sort of active voice feedback for weapons. Its more realistic.



Thanks for the insight. Does that mean that the ubiquitous Computer "Tracker" that Fast Attack and DW uses to magically track the target for the FC bearings was really just a guy shouting out bearing lines at standard intervals?

There are computer trackers but they just track the acoustics from sonar. That provides all bearing output. There are different types (Narrowband, broadband. Analog, digital.) and quatities of trackers. The fire control system applies it to those system automatically. The fire control system has a geographical display of it's own. I never found the OODs to fancy that though. They usually liked the FC system to be on the dot stacking display. For the plot a guy reads the digital display out loud every minute and that bearing is manually layed down on the plot on a white tracing paper scrolled over the geoplot table. As you get to the edge of the table the paper is scrolled and the "bug" in the table is repositioned by cranking some knobs on the table.

[LoBlo]

That's interesting. I heard that the OOD did this on British submarines, but didn't realize that American submarines did it too. Were all plots kept on the same paper? (in the case of multiple contacts of interest?)

[Rip]

There was only one table so everything that was being plotted at once had to go onto the same sheet. Now we would pull the paper and start another for a new contact at a later time. We didn't plot all contacts only ones being tracked or those important to the current tactical situation. Also the plot wasn't always being used. Only if the tracking party was stationed which usually meant a particular contact of interest was being engaged.

[Dr.Sid]

In Clancy's 'Submarine' there is talk about automatic solution. It is said that Brits use only this, and that US use both automatic and manual.
Which is which ? Is 'automatic' stacking dots on fire control or is there some other station ? I did full auto TMA by least square method and it was quite good, so I guess navy uses something like that too.
Is 'manual' plotting desk ?

Also I'm bumping the request about 'link' contacts. Where are they displayed ? Or is whole 'link' on subs just a fantasy ?

[Rip]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

In Clancy's 'Submarine' there is talk about automatic solution. It is said that Brits use only this, and that US use both automatic and manual.
Which is which ? Is 'automatic' stacking dots on fire control or is there some other station ? I did full auto TMA by least square method and it was quite good, so I guess navy uses something like that too.
Is 'manual' plotting desk ?

Also I'm bumping the request about 'link' contacts. Where are they displayed ? Or is whole 'link' on subs just a fantasy ?

The fire control system can do a dot stacking on it's own. Sometimes good, sometimes out in left field. You can also stack dots yourself. Plot table is purely manual.

We never had "link" info on the boats I was on. Not certain f that is something they now have. We only got info on contacts via text message and that was often old locations.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Also I'm bumping the request about 'link' contacts. Where are they displayed ? Or is whole 'link' on subs just a fantasy ?

Links exist, but you are asking a question nobody with real info will be real comfortable answering.

One of those operational security things...

[Dr.Sid]

Link exist is totally fine for me. For game purposes, it could be done that older subs and small navies would rely on text message/voice message and manual plot, while modern subs could use some tactical display and digital link (like DW has).

[Neptunus Rex]

Originally Posted by Rip

There was only one table so everything that was being plotted at once had to go onto the same sheet. Now we would pull the paper and start another for a new contact at a later time. We didn't plot all contacts only ones being tracked or those important to the current tactical situation. Also the plot wasn't always being used. Only if the tracking party was stationed which usually meant a particular contact of interest was being engaged.

Actually, there is one paper plot where sensor bearings to all contacts are made. It's called the Contact Evaluation Plot or CEP.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by Neptunus Rex

Actually, there is one paper plot where sensor bearings to all contacts are made. It's called the Contact Evaluation Plot or CEP.

This true. I was referring to the geo plot though. I always thought the CEP was a waste of time. Not updating it properly and timely has gotten many a sailors in the wringer though. Usually one of the key pieces requested in any collision investigation.

[LoBlo]

Here's a general question:

In general, what was your favoriate *type* of mission? What was your least favorite *type* of mission and why?

[Rip]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Here's a general question:

In general, what was your favoriate *type* of mission? What was your least favorite *type* of mission and why?

I'll have to give favorite some thought and post it later. Least favorite is easy. Prep mission for some type of inspection is the worst. Whether is be ORE or something else, it is a guaranteed drill and field day packed deployment. Major crapfest!

[Frame57]

NTPI's and ORSE's sucked.... Hunting outbound Soviet boomers was the best IMO because you actually felt like you were doin something other than punching holes in the ocean.