[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Mav87th

Ill be damnd - thnx Luke

Apparently something wrong with my install.

i dont have anything that should apply to this ship appart from the patch to RSRDC

MODS\RFB_v1.52_Patch_18Jan09\Data\Sea\NKLCS_Nagara

That changes 4 files of RFB

NKLCS_Nagara.dat
NKLCS_Nagara.sim
NKLCS_Nagara.sns
NKLCS_Nagara.zon

The RFB and RSRDC mods have been installed in this order - please verify this is correct.

RFB v1.52_102408
RFB v1.52_Patch 18Jan09
RSRDC RFBv15_V420
RSRDC_V420_Patch2

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT

ok i might be on to something

Websters Ship Maneuvering Fix is installed after the above mods. And it has a different Nagara Maru .sim file where at least the mass value are very different from the 0,0 in RFB. Ill try to remove this mod and try it out again....

Could be problematic for more then just me i guess..

Two things here:

• RFB 1.52 is now just one file. I'd recommend downloading the new file and replacing the two you have installed now. No patches to the mod are needed at this time.
• Webster's mod absolutely will cause problems with RFB's ship damage modeling. However, we are working on our own maneuvering mod, so if you can wait a while, you'll have your ship maneuvering and acceleration fix.

[Psychocandy]

Has the AI been tweaked much in this modification?

I'm asking as I'm running into some difficulty attacking an American task force in my Type IX. It's a while since I played SH3 (with GWX) but I don't remember having this much difficulty approaching a convoy. I think I need a little help...

Maybe I'm underestimating the AI sonar operators, but they seem to spot me from far too far out. I'm trying to approach a convoy of battleships, but I can't seem to get into position for a shot before being spotted. The convoy is being led by a destoyer and screened on the flanks a few km out by a couple more, with another (I think) at the back.

I placed myself in the convoy's path then dived to periscope depth when they were about 10km away. I set myself up so that I was 1500m left of the lead destroyer's path, and well out of range of the destroyers screening the convoy. Then, when the lead destroyer was still over 3500m away, it started flashing its lights and the whole convoy began evasive manoeuvres! The lead destroyer (and its friends) headed straight for me - then it was watery death.

My intention was to try and move around their field of detection, but I don't think I know what that is now!

I'm trying to remember the range of the sonars in SH3 GWX; I think it was a 1500m - 2000m crescent around the front and sides of the ship - isn't this still the same? These guys on SH4 with RFB seem to be detecting me from very far out.

Can anyone help, or at least just provide me with the rough detection ranges of American destroyers mid to late war?

[vanjast]

If you listen to the escorts, a lot of them intermittently switch off their engines to passively listen for subs (they don't have active sonar - the 1500-2000m crescent thing), so if you're going hell for leather under water they're going to hear you. If you keep your scope up for too long in good weather - bingo!

You have to get into firing postion in front, facing directly the convoy (gives less cross-sectional area for active sonar) and sit tight at ~300 ft. As the 1st merchant/escort passes, head up to scope depth (takes ages) and turn 90 degrees to convoy, or keep it straight to fire at a gyro angle=90.

Once you fired your torps back to max depth, and move away from your firing position (tell-tale torp wake), and continue through the back of the convoy @ 1 Knot.
Worked every time for me.

[Peto]

Originally Posted by Psychocandy

Has the AI been tweaked much in this modification?

I'm asking as I'm running into some difficulty attacking an American task force in my Type IX. It's a while since I played SH3 (with GWX) but I don't remember having this much difficulty approaching a convoy. I think I need a little help...

Maybe I'm underestimating the AI sonar operators, but they seem to spot me from far too far out. I'm trying to approach a convoy of battleships, but I can't seem to get into position for a shot before being spotted. The convoy is being led by a destoyer and screened on the flanks a few km out by a couple more, with another (I think) at the back.

I placed myself in the convoy's path then dived to periscope depth when they were about 10km away. I set myself up so that I was 1500m left of the lead destroyer's path, and well out of range of the destroyers screening the convoy. Then, when the lead destroyer was still over 3500m away, it started flashing its lights and the whole convoy began evasive manoeuvres! The lead destroyer (and its friends) headed straight for me - then it was watery death.

My intention was to try and move around their field of detection, but I don't think I know what that is now!

I'm trying to remember the range of the sonars in SH3 GWX; I think it was a 1500m - 2000m crescent around the front and sides of the ship - isn't this still the same? These guys on SH4 with RFB seem to be detecting me from very far out.

Can anyone help, or at least just provide me with the rough detection ranges of American destroyers mid to late war?

Mid to Late Allied sonar is nasty. A maximum range of under 2000 yds is very consevative for active sonar systems even at the beginning of the war. It was more like 2500 dependant on weather and operator ability.

The period you're speaking of is worse--in a couple of ways. Max Active range isn't really increased--in fact--later Allied active systems had a shorter range than earlier systems. Type 147 (spring '43) is known to be the deadliest because of it's look down capability and could be used in conjunction with Hedge Hog and Squid. Yet it's range was only about 1100 Yards. Escorts equipped with 147 typically had another system as well (144A for example) which could still reach out to the 2500 yard area. Systems with Q Apparatus actually had less range when using the look-down capability (about half).

Passive systems do get nastier but I actually decreased their range in RFB as I found them to be rediculously nasty and too sensitive. Weather plays a huge role in detection (what was the wind condition?) and crew quality is also extremely important regarding the range of detection. The 3500 meter detection range you mention seems too far even in good weather--unless I'm missing a detail. Scope up for how long? Silent Running? The more details you can give makes it easier to formulate a good response.

I'd like a couple more details as I've been looking for some feed-back on how these systems are working. Bring it on!

[XonE:32]

Originally Posted by Peto

Mid to Late Allied sonar is nasty.

Heh, one of the only surveys I've ever answered in my life was Neal's from a cpl o' days ago. With the question "Which do you like better" with regard to SH3 or SH4. The ASW of SH3 definitely came to mind. Although the Japanese ASW kinda sucked during the war and in SH3 it was more of a challenge, SH4 presents a whole set of different challenges that I enjoy. (patrol distance and fuel consumption to name one). I of course copped out and answered with the "both" option.

I do have a couple questions and I THINK they're RFB related, but I just don't know. I keep blabbin' this preamble below with every post I make, ...but the simple fact is I've had SH4 since it came out, but never installed it untill a cpl o weeks ago and immediately bought 1.5 and then proceeded to throw on mods. Bottom line... I've neer played stock SH4.

1)WCA Passive Range?
This is sonar related, but from the Fleet Boat side. When I aquire a contact in SH4 that's strong enough to illuminate the green light, but I can't hear anything on the phones... What's the largest size circle I should be drawing round my boat? 10, 15, 20 miles?

The WCA sonar listed in the boat sensors page says it has a passive range of 8500yds. I've been playin' SH4 w/RFB1.52 long enough now and that value seems ...conservative? In SH3 I knew the ranges of my u-boat's sonar. When I had a contact on the edge of it's range I used the compass to draw a circle round my boat as a rough reminder to me that the contact was within said area.

2)Collision Damage?
As I get comfy with the TDC in SH4 and I enjoy the scenery, I've been playin with the camera on. I'm weak willed so it has prevented me from dying as it's easy to avoid DC's when you can see where they are going. On two occasions I did take damage from a DD, but it was due to being rammed as I was calculating a shot. I thought it very cool, but I was a little disappointed at the amount of damage I took.

EDIT: oops, forgot to add I was at periscope depth when rammed in case it's relevant. Pease don't ask me why my stupid sig is appearing twice in this post, I'm as befuddled as you.

-Periscope shears slightly damaged,
-AA gun slightly damaged,
-Radio antenna very damaged.

Is this too difficult to mod (i.e. is it hard coded)? From what little I've read there where quite a few instances of the Allies ramming U-boats in the Atlantic Campaign and the damage was usually significant to both vessels, but much more so for the U-boat. I'd love to see them (the DDs) take a bit of damage, but I've seem them running into each other by accident and then steaming away quite happily lol. I assumed it was just something you couldn't mod very well due to UBI. Just curious.

Regards,

XonE:32



Current Mods

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by XonE:32

The WCA sonar listed in the boat sensors page says it has a passive range of 8500yds. I've been playin' SH4 w/RFB1.52 long enough now and that value seems ...conservative? In SH3 I knew the ranges of my u-boat's sonar. When I had a contact on the edge of it's range I used the compass to draw a circle round my boat as a rough reminder to me that the contact was within said area.

That's the correct passive range for WCA. Of course, targets were picked up at longer ranges than that, but on the whole, from reading a variety of sources (Norman Friedman's book, the patrol reports, to name a few), 8500 yards was the median range at which targets were picked up. You need to remember that WCA was designed to pick up supersonic frequencies; these sounds travel a lot less distance than sonic frequencies. More on this here:

Sound in Water

JP sonar, on the other hand, is a sonic listening device.

Lastly, keep in mind the submarine's sound detection model in SH3 and SH4 is very simple and doesn't take into account things like salinity, water temperature, currents, and thermal layers (this last facet, while in the game, affects only the AI's sonar). That's why I've chosen the numbers you see in RFB.

2)Collision Damage?
As I get comfy with the TDC in SH4 and I enjoy the scenery, I've been playin with the camera on. I'm weak willed so it has prevented me from dying as it's easy to avoid DC's when you can see where they are going. On two occasions I did take damage from a DD, but it was due to being rammed as I was calculating a shot. I thought it very cool, but I was a little disappointed at the amount of damage I took.

EDIT: oops, forgot to add I was at periscope depth when rammed in case it's relevant. Pease don't ask me why my stupid sig is appearing twice in this post, I'm as befuddled as you.

-Periscope shears slightly damaged,
-AA gun slightly damaged,
-Radio antenna very damaged.

Is this too difficult to mod (i.e. is it hard coded)? From what little I've read there where quite a few instances of the Allies ramming U-boats in the Atlantic Campaign and the damage was usually significant to both vessels, but much more so for the U-boat. I'd love to see them (the DDs) take a bit of damage, but I've seem them running into each other by accident and then steaming away quite happily lol. I assumed it was just something you couldn't mod very well due to UBI. Just curious.

The submarine damage model is working like it should. As of right now, the destroyer (and all warships, for that matter) damage modeling is still undergoing conversion to match the sinking characteristics of the merchant shipping.

[XonE:32]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

That's the correct passive range for WCA. Of course, targets were picked up at longer ranges than that, but on the whole, from reading a variety of sources (Norman Friedman's book, the patrol reports, to name a few), 8500 yards was the median range at which targets were picked up. You need to remember that WCA was designed to pick up supersonic frequencies; these sounds travel a lot less distance than sonic frequencies. More on this here:

So if it's a median range then would a suggested 6 mile circle.... OMG, I'm such a douche.

I'm thinkin'; your answer makes perfect sense and it's backed up, why is it that I seem to be picking up sh!t further away.

My math:
"Ok... so 8500yds times 3 is 25500ft. So 25500 divided by 8500 is 3 miles. 3 miles is a median range ergo draw a 6 mile circle." But I know I'm pickin' stuff up further out than that.

Then I put DOWN the crack pipe...

...and realize I might want to divide 25500 / 5280 in order to get a median range of approx 5 miles and draw a 10 mile circle on my plot map.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

The submarine damage model is working like it should. As of right now, the destroyer (and all warships, for that matter) damage modeling is still undergoing conversion to match the sinking characteristics of the merchant shipping.

Oh right I forgot the damage model wasn't applied for the warships yet. I remember reading that in the manual now I think. That will be interesting.

I ran into a Task Force out of Camranh the other day and as I was plopping off shots at the 2 Kongos one of the Maya Heavy Cruisers T-boned an Asashio DD at about 16knts. It was hilarious to watch and painful to listen to as the grinding of metal went on and on. The DD finally got pushed out of the way after almost being rolled over and then it (the DD) carried on it's merry way.

Thanks Luke, sorry for wastin' your time with my busted brain.

XonE:32

[vice_sinatra]

5280 feet = 1 mile

[vanjast]

To confuse things a bit more..

Which mile are you talking about.. there are 3 types!.

[XonE:32]

Originally Posted by vice_sinatra

5280 feet = 1 mile

Hehehe, I know I know don't rub it in lol. I haven't had a brain-fart like that in a while. I don't mind them as they're usually kinda funny... in a sad, humiliating, ego-debilitating kinda way. But when you waste other people's time with em it's more than a little embarrasing.

Originally Posted by vanjast

To confuse things a bit more..
Which mile are you talking about.. there are 3 types!.

Not anymore Van, at least according to me. Now there's FOUR! woohoo. Yep, 8500 yards is the new mile everyone. It's called the "xone".

"Contact, closing. Bearing three, seven, zero. Range, two... xones??"

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by vanjast

To confuse things a bit more..

Which mile are you talking about.. there are 3 types!.

Everything in RFB is calibrated to nautical miles where applicable.

8500 yards = 4.2 nautical miles.

[XonE:32]

Luke I have a question that's killin' me. Been pullin my hair out over it.

It has to do with RFB Cameras.dat. I would like to create a "semi-external view" option so I could leave the game option of external camera on, but not get so much info out of it. I Like everything about RFB Cameras.dat (e.g. ability to move about the interior, abiilty to walk across the bridge etc) so I don't wanna change any of it except the dummy_free_cam and that by only a bit.

I've already commented out the "next unit" & "previous unit" section of the commands.cfg so I can't use em. But I'm useless at Sh3ditor it seems as I can't even create a bloody node properly.

All I'd like to have is the free cam available to me, but locked on my sub with the ability to rotate around it for screenshots. Kinda like the view you get when you hit "next unit" when nothing is in range except your boat.

The simplest course would be to just not use the free cam to one's advantage during combat, but I'm weak willed.

Would you know who I could talk to on the RFB team for some guidance?
If not, it's not a huge issue. I'll just keep plodding around Sh3ditor and hope something comes of it.

Cheers

XonE:32

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by XonE:32

Luke I have a question that's killin' me. Been pullin my hair out over it.

It has to do with RFB Cameras.dat. I would like to create a "semi-external view" option so I could leave the game option of external camera on, but not get so much info out of it. I Like everything about RFB Cameras.dat (e.g. ability to move about the interior, abiilty to walk across the bridge etc) so I don't wanna change any of it except the dummy_free_cam and that by only a bit.

I've already commented out the "next unit" & "previous unit" section of the commands.cfg so I can't use em. But I'm useless at Sh3ditor it seems as I can't even create a bloody node properly.

All I'd like to have is the free cam available to me, but locked on my sub with the ability to rotate around it for screenshots. Kinda like the view you get when you hit "next unit" when nothing is in range except your boat.

The simplest course would be to just not use the free cam to one's advantage during combat, but I'm weak willed.

Would you know who I could talk to on the RFB team for some guidance?
If not, it's not a huge issue. I'll just keep plodding around Sh3ditor and hope something comes of it.

I belive the node you want to edit in S3D is "FreeMove," under the "_Dummy_Cam_FreeCamera" section.

[XonE:32]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

I belive the node you want to edit in S3D is "FreeMove," under the "_Dummy_Cam_FreeCamera" section.

Thanks Luke. I believe you're right. Probably be the simplest solution just to slow it down so it's not worth it to look around at long distances. I don't think there's much more you can do with that controller. As far as I can see there's no way to make the _Dummy_Cam_FreeCamera "lock" onto your boat. Presumeably that's why it's called a 'free' cam.

At least in my plodding around Sh3ditor I did end up learning how to make proper nodes, chunks, child chunks etc.. so it wasn't a complete waste o time. Thanks again.

[Coolhand01]

@ XonE:32 or LukeFF,
Is there a way to limit the zoom in and out so you "can't leave the boat" with the camera? If so I would be interested in knowing how to do this as I am also tempted to roam around the pacific to see who's out there....CH