Wondering what your habits are... - Page 2

MonTana_Prussian · 04-24-09, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

As long as you have radar, sonar is a waste of time and fuel. Radar has much longer range, gives you precise target positions, not just bearings and it works just fine at 4096x TC. You want to find more targets? STAY ON THE SURFACE AT ALL TIMES unless your live's in danger. The ostrich strategy doesn't work. You aren't safer just because you can't see and you don't see further with your radar antenna under water.

The number of targets you find is directly proportional to the number of square miles of ocean surface you search in 24 hours. That means you stay on the surface at 9 knots with the radar on. Anything else is dereliction of duty. Darn, I'm predictable!

I agree 100%. I never submerge except to evade attack,or make a daylight attack on a target. Once you get it,radar is your best friend use it!

I NEVER engage aircraft,the risk is not worth it. I avoid engaging DDs and other escorts unless it is a matter of life and death.

theluckyone17 · 04-25-09, 05:49 PM

I use 256x-512x TC on my way to the patrol area... 128x, if I think there might be targets in the area. At 128x, my rig doesn't do that *pause, hesitate, skip* bit when I'm near a sizeable target. I consider that a bit of cheat for myself (couldn't care less if the rest of y'all do it).

Once I'm in the area, I generally look for a choke point, and crisscross it, at 128x-256x TC. If there's no choke point, then I'll look for semi-obvious trade routes. If there aren't any, I'll just zigzag my way across the patrol area, hoping to run into anything.

I'm always on the surface, 10 knots. I don't see much benefit to diving every so often, since it'll be pure dumb luck for me to run into something my sonarman can hear but my lookouts can't see.

I'm more of the "my sub is a torp boat that can sink itself to stay out of trouble" crowd. If I'm not trying to be sneaky, I'm on the surface.

Radar? Oh, man... I can't wait 'til radar. I keep playing these early war careers, and either get sunk, or somebody opens up a mod, or I realize I've been playing with the RFB airstrike.cfg with RSRDC... you get the point. Something happens, that makes me think I might as well just restart a career. I hear RFB 2 will take a while, though, so I might actually be able to finish my current career

LukeFF · 04-25-09, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

As long as you have radar, sonar is a waste of time and fuel. Radar has much longer range, gives you precise target positions, not just bearings and it works just fine at 4096x TC.

Especially considering American sonar doesn't have all that great of range, either. A target has to get awfully close to a submerged American boat in order for the hydrophones to pick it up.

vanjast · 04-26-09, 03:23 PM

Another thing, that I've been doing lately...
When an escort is tracking you, it will creep slowly.. once it has a lock on you it'll will accelerate and the drop charges.

When it accelerates you flank speed and turn inside of the direction of attack. As he crosses over you go straight... DC's will pop but you should out of the way by that time. Keep the hydrophone on him. He'll suddenly slow down to listen, at this point you go back to 1 knot.

Follow him in the turn and as he pass going 180, you straighten out and creep away.

Fishie · 04-27-09, 09:22 AM

um, for the record...I was assuming early war with no surface radar...that's the hydrophone search method I use. Thought that went without saying

After surface radar is available, I am on the surface 90% of the time.

abclkhan · 04-27-09, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishie

um, for the record...I was assuming early war with no surface radar...that's the hydrophone search method I use. Thought that went without saying

After surface radar is available, I am on the surface 90% of the time.

bah... that´s why I enjoy much more uboats than fleet boats during the late years of war...
Im not used to employ radar, actually I dont like it. My favorite way of hunting is to dive in a narrow passage / strait and conduct submerged atacks on the ships passing by.
When in patrol zones, i dive and stay at 4knt all the time...

Fishie · 04-27-09, 11:23 AM

Nice! Hit a narrow strait and go for it, huh?

Ever run out of room to dodge the destroyers? hehehe

abclkhan · 04-27-09, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishie

Nice! Hit a narrow strait and go for it, huh?

Ever run out of room to dodge the destroyers? hehehe

I avoid DDs when I hear them coming

Armistead · 04-27-09, 07:55 PM

Mod's play a part. TMO and RFB are both good, but RSRDC is a must. I use the pull down map in TMO to look for shipping lanes. The key to finding ships is staying in the shipping lanes. My favorite shippings lanes are the two between Tawi Tawi and Joli..maybe it's Jolo...but in those narrows I've found the best shipping, including a 50 ship convoy.

I'm a surface runner. Radar works, so stay on the surface.

With RSRD, if you know your battle dates and locations..are care to peek in the ME, you can find all the large TF. Nothing like ambushing the large TF in the San Bern straits.

To evade dd's, I go much deeper than default. I thought the game programmed charges to go poof at around 300 ft, but weather and sea conditions seemingly affect that and how sonar works. I was at 500 and one depth charge was a bullseye and sunk me. So now I use depth and evasion tactics I would use in shallow water.

Planes....I use to ignore them and for the most part still do until I get two special gunners with high experience I'll shoot singles. Flank speed and weaving, so far I've never been hit.

Still, I alter careers. One career I play 100% no cams or contacts, another contacts and cams on for SS's. When I play for real....I play much different.

uusmario · 05-01-09, 05:08 PM

After one convoy attack gone bad in late 1943 (after improvements on Mk14) and I was spotted and attacked by DD's, I found out that if you position your sub well, keep a cold nerve and maybe have a little bit of luck, it's not hard to sink a DD. Sank 4 in less then 7.minutes (11 DD total in that patrol) .Haven't evaded DD since, hadn't been destroyed nor dammaged.

swmicros · 05-02-09, 12:40 PM

I like to stay in the lanes as well. Assuming I have radar, I draw 20nm circles (~radar range) along the lane and follow the edges of the circles for my search pattern, back and forth on the surface up the shipping lane. That way I'm convering about a 40 mile swath of the path the ships are likely to take. Upon sighting I drop to "decks awash" depth (35 - 40 ft depending on waves, probably deeper than real depth as I am chest deep in salt water

) and plot course, speed and intercept (yah MOBO!

). Once the attack is planned, I get into position, going to scope depth as soon as possible, and listen on sonar. I like a Cromwell attack best if possible, and when the victim is within 5 - 10 degrees of shoot bearing, up scope, and it's fishies away!

I also like to shoot from stern to bow, The sequence is "Wait for juicy part to cross wire" [ENTER] (fire torps), W (next tube), [RIGHTorLEFTARROW] (move scope ahead a bit), rinse & repeat.

Thanks to you all here who helped me figure all that out!

Love this game! Love this (SUBSIM) community!

vanjast · 05-02-09, 01:28 PM

Here's why I search for my targets with sonar.(sorry about the big picture - Not sure how to shrink it here)
Although not modelled in the game - on a good day a radar aerial @ 20M (60ft) would not be able to see surface object of futher than ~11miles (~10Nm), whereas sonar on a good day can 'see' a lot further.

On a bad day radar would be worse... Remember Radar is Line-Of-Sight or straight line views so it cannot see surface objects over the horizon, whereas sound travel does not have this restriction.

swmicros · 05-02-09, 01:42 PM

Very insteresting Vanjast!

How far out can you expect to pickup sonar targets? How does depth and speed effect it?

I was playing around with 100% realism the other night, and failing miserably at detecting anything (even though I knew it was there, because I MADE THE MISSION!

DOH!

Thanks for the enlightning chart!

vanjast · 05-02-09, 01:59 PM

Chart is from Wiki.

The general theory is that a single contact would only be a few Nm, but a convoy creates a larger volume of noise and it is possible to pick it up over the horizon, where the radar cannot see. Radar can of course pick up aircraft flying at higher levels, but then transmitting radio (or radar), as we know, is a dead give away of your position.

I'm not sure of the game modelling of the radar, but judging from SH3 and SH4 the hydrophone/sonar is not that bad. UBI 'professed' that the devs did a lot of research into all aspects of the game, which I can agree with. Not everything is accurate though as proven by the forum collective work done.

The range of sonar I think is probably difficult to model, as there are many variables, but I'd think for a good day, 10Nm (30Nm) would be ok for a single ship (convoy)

Rockin Robbins · 05-02-09, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanjast

Here's why I search for my targets with sonar.(sorry about the big picture - Not sure how to shrink it here)
Although not modelled in the game - on a good day a radar aerial @ 20M (60ft) would not be able to see surface object of futher than ~11miles (~10Nm), whereas sonar on a good day can 'see' a lot further.

On a bad day radar would be worse... Remember Radar is Line-Of-Sight or straight line views so it cannot see surface objects over the horizon, whereas sound travel does not have this restriction.

Sounds great, but it's wrong. Otherwise Fluckey would have operated this way. He didn't. By maintaining 10 knot surface speed, you search many times more square miles of ocean surface in a given time than you can at dead slow underwater listening with sonar. The number of targets you find is directly proportional to the number of square miles you search in a given time.

It's just a numbers game, but it's much more involved than how far you can see to the horizon. Fluckey figured he could search 10 times the area of ostriches just with visual high periscope technique on the surface and NOT using the radar at all. Considering his results compared to other sub captains in the mid 1944 to end of war era, I believe him.

04-27-09, 09:22 AM	#20
Fishie Loader Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 82 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	um, for the record...I was assuming early war with no surface radar...that's the hydrophone search method I use. Thought that went without saying After surface radar is available, I am on the surface 90% of the time. __________________ One fish, two fish, three fish, BOOM! Fishie, Commander SS-215 Fear the Growler!

04-27-09, 11:23 AM	#22
Fishie Loader Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 82 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Nice! Hit a narrow strait and go for it, huh? Ever run out of room to dodge the destroyers? hehehe __________________ One fish, two fish, three fish, BOOM! Fishie, Commander SS-215 Fear the Growler!

05-02-09, 01:28 PM	#27
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,739 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	Here's why I search for my targets with sonar.(sorry about the big picture - Not sure how to shrink it here) Although not modelled in the game - on a good day a radar aerial @ 20M (60ft) would not be able to see surface object of futher than ~11miles (~10Nm), whereas sonar on a good day can 'see' a lot further. On a bad day radar would be worse... Remember Radar is Line-Of-Sight or straight line views so it cannot see surface objects over the horizon, whereas sound travel does not have this restriction. Last edited by vanjast; 05-02-09 at 01:38 PM.

04-25-09, 05:49 PM	#17
theluckyone17 Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: Niskayuna, NY Posts: 482 Downloads: 103 Uploads: 0	I use 256x-512x TC on my way to the patrol area... 128x, if I think there might be targets in the area. At 128x, my rig doesn't do that pause, hesitate, skip bit when I'm near a sizeable target. I consider that a bit of cheat for myself (couldn't care less if the rest of y'all do it). Once I'm in the area, I generally look for a choke point, and crisscross it, at 128x-256x TC. If there's no choke point, then I'll look for semi-obvious trade routes. If there aren't any, I'll just zigzag my way across the patrol area, hoping to run into anything. I'm always on the surface, 10 knots. I don't see much benefit to diving every so often, since it'll be pure dumb luck for me to run into something my sonarman can hear but my lookouts can't see. I'm more of the "my sub is a torp boat that can sink itself to stay out of trouble" crowd. If I'm not trying to be sneaky, I'm on the surface. Radar? Oh, man... I can't wait 'til radar. I keep playing these early war careers, and either get sunk, or somebody opens up a mod, or I realize I've been playing with the RFB airstrike.cfg with RSRDC... you get the point. Something happens, that makes me think I might as well just restart a career. I hear RFB 2 will take a while, though, so I might actually be able to finish my current career

04-26-09, 03:23 PM	#19
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,739 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	Another thing, that I've been doing lately... When an escort is tracking you, it will creep slowly.. once it has a lock on you it'll will accelerate and the drop charges. When it accelerates you flank speed and turn inside of the direction of attack. As he crosses over you go straight... DC's will pop but you should out of the way by that time. Keep the hydrophone on him. He'll suddenly slow down to listen, at this point you go back to 1 knot. Follow him in the turn and as he pass going 180, you straighten out and creep away.

04-27-09, 07:55 PM	#24
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Mod's play a part. TMO and RFB are both good, but RSRDC is a must. I use the pull down map in TMO to look for shipping lanes. The key to finding ships is staying in the shipping lanes. My favorite shippings lanes are the two between Tawi Tawi and Joli..maybe it's Jolo...but in those narrows I've found the best shipping, including a 50 ship convoy. I'm a surface runner. Radar works, so stay on the surface. With RSRD, if you know your battle dates and locations..are care to peek in the ME, you can find all the large TF. Nothing like ambushing the large TF in the San Bern straits. To evade dd's, I go much deeper than default. I thought the game programmed charges to go poof at around 300 ft, but weather and sea conditions seemingly affect that and how sonar works. I was at 500 and one depth charge was a bullseye and sunk me. So now I use depth and evasion tactics I would use in shallow water. Planes....I use to ignore them and for the most part still do until I get two special gunners with high experience I'll shoot singles. Flank speed and weaving, so far I've never been hit. Still, I alter careers. One career I play 100% no cams or contacts, another contacts and cams on for SS's. When I play for real....I play much different.

05-01-09, 05:08 PM	#25
uusmario Nub Join Date: May 2009 Location: Estonia Posts: 3 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	After one convoy attack gone bad in late 1943 (after improvements on Mk14) and I was spotted and attacked by DD's, I found out that if you position your sub well, keep a cold nerve and maybe have a little bit of luck, it's not hard to sink a DD. Sank 4 in less then 7.minutes (11 DD total in that patrol) .Haven't evaded DD since, hadn't been destroyed nor dammaged.

05-02-09, 12:40 PM	#26
swmicros Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 27 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	I like to stay in the lanes as well. Assuming I have radar, I draw 20nm circles (~radar range) along the lane and follow the edges of the circles for my search pattern, back and forth on the surface up the shipping lane. That way I'm convering about a 40 mile swath of the path the ships are likely to take. Upon sighting I drop to "decks awash" depth (35 - 40 ft depending on waves, probably deeper than real depth as I am chest deep in salt water ) and plot course, speed and intercept (yah MOBO! ). Once the attack is planned, I get into position, going to scope depth as soon as possible, and listen on sonar. I like a Cromwell attack best if possible, and when the victim is within 5 - 10 degrees of shoot bearing, up scope, and it's fishies away! I also like to shoot from stern to bow, The sequence is "Wait for juicy part to cross wire" [ENTER] (fire torps), W (next tube), [RIGHTorLEFTARROW] (move scope ahead a bit), rinse & repeat. Thanks to you all here who helped me figure all that out! Love this game! Love this (SUBSIM) community!

05-02-09, 01:42 PM	#28
swmicros Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 27 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Very insteresting Vanjast! How far out can you expect to pickup sonar targets? How does depth and speed effect it? I was playing around with 100% realism the other night, and failing miserably at detecting anything (even though I knew it was there, because I MADE THE MISSION! DOH! Thanks for the enlightning chart!

05-02-09, 01:59 PM	#29
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,739 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	Chart is from Wiki. The general theory is that a single contact would only be a few Nm, but a convoy creates a larger volume of noise and it is possible to pick it up over the horizon, where the radar cannot see. Radar can of course pick up aircraft flying at higher levels, but then transmitting radio (or radar), as we know, is a dead give away of your position. I'm not sure of the game modelling of the radar, but judging from SH3 and SH4 the hydrophone/sonar is not that bad. UBI 'professed' that the devs did a lot of research into all aspects of the game, which I can agree with. Not everything is accurate though as proven by the forum collective work done. The range of sonar I think is probably difficult to model, as there are many variables, but I'd think for a good day, 10Nm (30Nm) would be ok for a single ship (convoy)