How to calculate ACCURATE range without having to use the stadimeter?

[Paul Riley]

Thanks for that pisces,yer a great help mate

One problem I,if not others,seem to be having with the stadimeter is the unstable platform,due to the rocking of the sea,which is understandable,but is this realistic?.Would the scopes in WWII have had some sort of device/mechanism for steadying the scope?

Would it be feasible then in the realism settings to check the box that deals with this unsteadiness?

I am seriously considering having map updates back on though,if I keep having problems getting accurate range data

Again,thanks

[Pisces]

Good point. OLC suggests the stabilised periscope view is a reasonable approximation of the ease real commanders had. Because they too had a split-prism mechanism in the periscope as the Americans had and is modelled in Sh4. (except that it could also rotate 90 degrees for AOB measuring) With that split-prism you have 2 identical images of the sea and ship moving up and down in the same rate. It would be alot easier for your eyes to follow it and put one mast on the waterline of the other. Than to keep the waterline leveled (by hand-eye coordination) and also measure the height of the mast. Keeping your eyes at 2 places at the same time is very difficult.

[Paul Riley]

Then,in your opinion,it would not be much of an issue to have the 'stabilze view' checked? I imagine the real scopes to behave far more reliably,instead of bouncing up and down all the time,I mean if the Germans could build rockets back then,i'm sure designing a steadying device for a periscope to be a walk in the park.

Thanks.

[Platapus]

As for requirements for these mods, I would highly suggest you download JSGME JS Generic Mod Enabler. It makes activating and more importantly deactivating the different mods you may be using.

Being able to selectively activate and deactivate mods is very important if you run into problems.

I had a problem with my SH3 set up. I *thought* it was a GWX3 problem. But by using JSGME to selectively turn in and off, I was able to identify the actual mod that was causing my problem. After that it was a simple matter to contact the specific MOD designer and get specialized help.

I agree with you about the contact icons on the map. I do with that the OLC Gold gui still had them (this is an example of a mod taking something out that I liked).

From a realism standpoint, I think it is reasonable to assume that I do have a crew that can do their jobs. Command may be lonely but a commander is seldom alone. We do have a crew to do some of the work. One of those jobs should be to take the information the commander gives and graphically plot it on a chart.

To me, the realism is not whether we have contacts on our chart or not. The realism issue is the accuracy of the charted contacts.

Instead of making charted contacts a binary choice i.e., you either have them or not, I think a better way would be have contact being plotted enabled, but the only information that goes into the contact plot is information the commander gatherers (including all the errors I will gather)

This is in contrast to the "god-like view" of the stock contacts being charted.

Either extreme

No automatic plotting
"god like" plotting

is unreasonable and unrealistic and our choices should not be forced into either of the extremes.

The latest version of OLC did a wonderful job of addressing this. When zoomed in Hydrophone bearings are automatically displayed.

But if you want the contacts displayed, you have to manually put them on the chart. Depending on the range, this can involve several steps and different plotting tools. But worst of all, it takes time. While I am plotting the contact, I am losing my situation awareness which can be a bad thing.

A change I would like to see implemented in a future mod would simulate my having a smart crew capable of plotting stuff, but keep them isolated (which they are as they are inside a sub!). A good plotter can only plot based on the information they are given. Since it would be unrealistic for the plotter to have independent information ('god-like", I feel it is realistic for the plotter to have dependent information... dependent on the observations and judgement of the observing officer -- commander.

This, in my humble opinion, would be the best of both worlds. I am not getting any "unfair" advantage of the stock "god-like" plotting, but I am also not being forced to do two distinct jobs at the same time (command and plot)

[Paul Riley]

Thanks platapus.

So,from a realism point of view,having map updates on is not much of an issue then,as you say it sort of simulates the crew doing their job,freeing up the commander to see to other pressing matters at that moment.
I only started with map updates off yesterday,after years of playing with full realism except for the god view.I noticed straight away that having it off was ruining my concentration on other things happening around me,becoming tediously time consuming,not to mention quite difficult,with a stadimeter that acts more like a bloody bouncy castle.
I don't think having map updates on to be much of a cheat,if thats what people view it as,because even if you have the initial contacts on the map,in 3 or 4 hrs,or more,the contacts may have changed course anyway.And actually engaging the target efficiently and safely is made no easier either,as all this still has to be maintained by the player alone.
I am going to restart my patrol I think now,and enable the map contacts,and maybe the stabilize view,to simulate what was mentioned earlier,about periscopes with stabilizing mechanisms,which i'm sure they must have had

[onelifecrisis]

OLC GUI won't make your range calculations from the periscope any more accurate, I'm afraid. But you really don't need any more accuracy than you have. If you have accurate target course and speed data then the range does not need to be super-accurate in order to get an excellent firing solution.

The reason you're having difficulty getting an accurate course is because (if I understand your post correctly) you're trying to get it in five minutes. IRL commanders spent hours (sometimes days) tracking a ship/convoy in order to get accurate course data, and this is what works best in SH3 also. Spot a ship/convoy, mark it's position and approximate course on the map as you are doing now. Then track it at the edge of visual range for... lets say 50km. This is quite arduous and requires constant adjustments to your course to make sure you don't get too close or too far away, so if you're feeling lazy/lucky just flank it and position yourself 50km ahead of it and wait for it to re-appear. Either way you mark it's position again once it's moved 50km. You now have two marks separated by at least 50km, which means each mark can be innacurate by a couple of kilometers and you'd still have good course and speed data. For even more accurate data go another 50km... but beware of the ship/convoy changing course!

When such manouvers are impossible (because the target is moving too fast to be flanked, or is heading into dangerous/shallow water, or whatever) you can use the tools in the OLC GUI to get an immediate firing solution without any prior course or speed data, provided you can get into a firing position (and the mod is "historically accurate/realistic" as well).

This video shows that with accurate course and speed data gathered over a long time/distance, the range doesn't need to be that accurate to score perfect hits.

HTH
OLC <- (that's me )

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

This video shows that with accurate course and speed data gathered over a long time/distance, the range doesn't need to be that accurate to score perfect hits.

HTH
OLC <- (that's me )

Anyone else having problems with the audio on this clip?

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Anyone else having problems with the audio on this clip?

Do you have DivX installed?
www.divx.com